Cat's Eye Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Is there anyone on this site that drives a hybrid? I'm interested in getting one. It seems like the Toyota Prius is considered the best for mileage and has a good history. Is there anything comparable you'd recommend? How about a dealer? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 If you're doing this for financial reasons instead of environmental ones, keep in mind that it takes a long time to make up the extra initial cost. The average person is probably lucky to break even in the end. Make sure you've done the math correctly for your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 A friend of mine with a Prius has found that the traction control system is overly aggressive and it can't be shut off, so the car comes to a dead stop on any hill where you'd normally spin the wheels to keep moving. A Google search for "prius traction control" shows similar reports. If you live on a hill and you need to be out before the plows come around, this may not be the car for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Civic VX hatch or CRX HF are not hybrids but the gas mileage plus emissions are pretty damn close to the prius. They are old but surely you can find a well kept one. Also cost wise you would save money all around. Only problem is a little bit of luxury and space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat's Eye Posted February 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 A friend of mine with a Prius has found that the traction control system is overly aggressive and it can't be shut off, so the car comes to a dead stop on any hill where you'd normally spin the wheels to keep moving. A Google search for "prius traction control" shows similar reports. If you live on a hill and you need to be out before the plows come around, this may not be the car for you. Wow that's pretty interesting and very important to know if you live on a hill. Fortunately I don't so I may still consider the car, but I would definitely think twice before driving up any steep inclines in the snow. Thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stretch Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 If you're doing this for financial reasons instead of environmental ones, keep in mind that it takes a long time to make up the extra initial cost. The average person is probably lucky to break even in the end. Make sure you've done the math correctly for your situation. This could possibly be the best auto purchasing advice yet! Let me add to it............. Do the math carefully and correctly.....example: Gas: 1000 miles @ 40MPG = 25 gallons x $3/gallon = $75/1000 miles 1000 miles @ 20MPG = 50 gallons x $3/gallon = $150/1000 miles Let's say you have a car that gets 20MPG that costs $200/month and you drive 1000 miles per month. Totals: $200/payment, $150 gas = $350/month New Prius(purchase) $400/payment, $75 gas= $475 Obviously, the numbers change dramatically with every deal(and gas every day), but, start by calculating what your car costs per month today. Do some tracking of your current situation: how many miles do you drive? what is your present gas mileage? how much do you owe on the car? is the potential trade value more than what you owe?(If not, might want to wait) is it costing money in repairs, and will that continue? If your car is paid off, and it still looks decent, and performs well, should you trade it to get better gas mileage? No, that simple. And, remember, nobody really cares what you drive. Don't put yourself in hock to impress some loser neighbor. I know $100K earners that drive really old cars to get the last free mile they can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Just bought a new Prius. Previous posts are good and should be considered. Another factor, some knowledgeable people anticipate gas cost increasing much faster than inflation. $4 gas would not be a surprise by the end of this year. This increase revises calculations dramatically. Prius is surprisingly roomy and comfortable. It is not a compromise car in either comfort or power. Power is more than adequate. I have to drive up a very steep hill every day. I've had no hint of a traction problem in very icy/snowy weather. Also, I'm getting between 40 & 46 mpg depending on driving conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Just bought a new Prius. Previous posts are good and should be considered. Another factor, some knowledgeable people anticipate gas cost increasing much faster than inflation. $4 gas would not be a surprise by the end of this year. This increase revises calculations dramatically. Prius is surprisingly roomy and comfortable. It is not a compromise car in either comfort or power. Power is more than adequate. I have to drive up a very steep hill every day. I've had no hint of a traction problem in very icy/snowy weather. Also, I'm getting between 40 & 46 mpg depending on driving conditions. Nobody knows what the price of gas will be at the end of the year. It has drop down almost 15 dollars a barrel in the last 11/2 months in the dead of winter. So if i'm a betting man im saying closer to 2 a gallon than 4 a gallon. And I am not driving no damn car I have to plug in because like my cell phone i'll forget and be DELETED in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mullet Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 I read in Motor Trend that the batteries will not last over 100K miles. It would cost around $3500 to replace them. There is also an issue of properly disposing of the old batteries since they have some toxic properties in them. Take these costs into consideration, along with paying the extra to buy it, it would seem that there would be NO savings for you. In fact, the cost per mile actually is MORE than a non Hybrid. Hybrid cars are a start, but more needs to be done for a car to really be "friendly". Sometimes, technology takes some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 I have two brother in laws which both own hybrids. One owns the Toyota Camry and the other own the Prius. The size of the Prius is what scares me. I would be afraid of dying in that thing if I were to get hit. Inside both of the cars have the same amount of room, believe it or not. They both love their cars and have no complaints about them. I would consider buying the Camry, but could never bring myself to purchase the Prius because of its size. I would never feel safe in it even though I am sure it has good safety ratings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 I have two brother in laws which both own hybrids. One owns the Toyota Camry and the other own the Prius. The size of the Prius is what scares me. I would be afraid of dying in that thing if I were to get hit. Inside both of the cars have the same amount of room, believe it or not. They both love their cars and have no complaints about them. I would consider buying the Camry, but could never bring myself to purchase the Prius because of its size. I would never feel safe in it even though I am sure it has good safety ratings. good posting The Camry hybrids are nice and the Hybrid Ford SUV's are getting a surprising amount of good reviews. The Prius is too small for me so it would never be an option but I dont know how you could go wrong if you could afford to buy a Camry Hybrid. A great car + great gas mileage! Also the VW's have a line of cars with excellent gas mileage. Their Diesel hatchback is unreal. Friend of mine drove to VA Beach on a tank of gas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 I know a few Prius people around here and they've said their mileage is normally in the mid 40s in the summer. I think it's supposed to be a bit lower in colder weather, but I don't know how much lower they're seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 If you can hold out a little longer, do so. Its well known in the auto industry that the current hybrid's were only a quick band-aid. They have had some problems, there is a lot of uncertnity about there usefull life and you cannot pull into your local garage and have work done. If there are repairs, Toyota will soak you for every last dollar. Check with your insurance, some companies are adding a surcharge because of the batteries.parts and labor are very high. Most of the manufacturesers are working on improvements. The next 3 years or so should see the introduction of several improved models (including all electric - Take a look at the Telsa to see what is possible in electric cars). Lastly, as previously stated, do the numbers. The increased cost may not be worth it. It could very well take of 100,000 miles before you have recouped your investment, and thats providing its 100k of problem free driving. If you are trading a car that is average in its MPG's, you will NOT come out ahead. The only cost savings in the long run is moving from a low mpg SUV or truck to the Prius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 I traded in a 2005 Chevy Express Van for a Prius. At $3 per gallon driving the same miles, I will save over $4,000. The Prius is not "small". That's what I thought before I looked at it. I'm tall and big and had no trouble in the driver's seat. I couldn't believe the room in the back seat either. There are very few cars I'm comfortable in the back seat. The Prius was a real surprise. It may not be pretty (my wife said "Boy, is that ugly") when she first saw it. But she is the primary driver now and loves it. The design is based on the maximum use of space and to aerodynamically "slippery" to get better gas mileage. It's primary design is not for aesthetics. The Prius is not a mini box like some people think. I believe it is classified as a mid-sized car. The other hybrids mentioned above are all good, but none come close to the Prius mileage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 ? Does the 4,000.00 include the increased purchase cost of the Prius vs. a similar non-hybrid car or is it based on fuel mileage alone. Just Curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 ? Does the 4,000.00 include the increased purchase cost of the Prius vs. a similar non-hybrid car or is it based on fuel mileage alone. Just Curious. Nope. Just the savings from increased gas mileage. That was $4,000 per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 ? Does the 4,000.00 include the increased purchase cost of the Prius vs. a similar non-hybrid car or is it based on fuel mileage alone. Just Curious. Nope. Just the savings from increased gas mileage. That was $4,000 per year. I'm calling BS on this. Can we see the math? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stretch Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 I traded in a 2005 Chevy Express Van for a Prius. At $3 per gallon driving the same miles, I will save over $4,000. The Prius is not "small". That's what I thought before I looked at it. I'm tall and big and had no trouble in the driver's seat. I couldn't believe the room in the back seat either. There are very few cars I'm comfortable in the back seat. The Prius was a real surprise. It may not be pretty (my wife said "Boy, is that ugly") when she first saw it. But she is the primary driver now and loves it. The design is based on the maximum use of space and to aerodynamically "slippery" to get better gas mileage. It's primary design is not for aesthetics. The Prius is not a mini box like some people think. I believe it is classified as a mid-sized car. The other hybrids mentioned above are all good, but none come close to the Prius mileage. How many miles do you drive per year? I looked at the Chevy Express Van series, and they are pretty big, probably averaging 12MPG throughout the line. Going from 12 to 45+ would most definitely make a big difference in gas spending........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 I'm calling BS on this. Can we see the math? OK, here it is: 20,000 miles per year 12 mpg Express van = 1,667 gal @ $3.25/gal = $5,417 45 mpg Prius = 445 gal @ $3.25/gal = $1.444 = $3.972 savings. I used $3,25/gal as what I thought gas would average for the upcoming year. Use whatever number you like, but the savings are still staggering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 OK, here it is: 20,000 miles per year 12 mpg Express van = 1,667 gal @ $3.25/gal = $5,417 45 mpg Prius = 445 gal @ $3.25/gal = $1.444 = $3.972 savings. I used $3,25/gal as what I thought gas would average for the upcoming year. Use whatever number you like, but the savings are still staggering. Thanks for the reply. While those are significant savings, you're really not comparing apples to apples. However, since it works for you, and you're downsizing vehicles, it's a good choice. Good luck with the new car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mullet Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 I think a more fair assessment would be comparing the Hybrid to a standard Toyota Corolla. Corolla with a list that starts at $15,250. XLE starts at $17,550. 35 MPG with the 1.8L engine. Prius list price starts at $21,100. Touring starts at $23,370. 45 MPG with it's 1.8L. Using the highway numbers from above for 20,000 miles/year 35 mpg Corolla = 571 gal @$3.25 = $1,856 45 mpg Prius = 445 gal @ $3.25/gal = $1,444 A savings of $412/year List price of the Prius is $6000 over the Corolla, so with a savings of $412/year, it would take 14.5 years for this savings to offset the extra cost of the car. Assuming 20,000 miles/year, the total mileage of the car would be 290,000 in those 14.5 years. Then factor in battery replacement ($3500 est at 100,000 miles), so at 290,000 (if the Prius makes it that far) look at another $7000 extra in the cost, plus another $3500 battery replacement within 10K miles. Then add further the extra costs of maintenance of the hybrid components, something the standard gasoline engine does not even have, and you will see even more money being spent on the hybrid. So using simple math, show where the savings is. This shows the Prius is going to cost you a whole lot more to operate in the same lifespan of the Corolla. As for the environment, we can get into tons of CO2 released per year, but how about the battery disposal for the 2 sets of batteries replaced? Even a child can see the Hybrid is not doing a dang thing but making people "feel good". Maybe in a few years, newer technology will produce a clean car, but it is not here with these Hybrids. Comparing it to the van is pointless, but using the same per year numbers, you still would save $3569/yr with the Corolla. And on top of that, you would not be able to haul sheets of plywood or more than 5 passangers. The van is designed for a different purpace than a passanger car, period. BTW: Have you seen the South Park episode on the Hybrids? Check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 The above comments by Mullet are spot on. Great post !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Good Post. That was what I was refering to earlier when I said if you can wait, do so. It's not that Hybrids are bad, but over and over the auto industry insiders and investors have said to do the math. Hybrids are a temporary band-aid that was started by Toyota and sold to people as being the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C6B84E Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Just bought a new Prius. Previous posts are good and should be considered. Another factor, some knowledgeable people anticipate gas cost increasing much faster than inflation. $4 gas would not be a surprise by the end of this year. This increase revises calculations dramatically. Prius is surprisingly roomy and comfortable. It is not a compromise car in either comfort or power. Power is more than adequate. I have to drive up a very steep hill every day. I've had no hint of a traction problem in very icy/snowy weather. Also, I'm getting between 40 & 46 mpg depending on driving conditions. I use to own a 1990 Ford Escort with a 5 speed manual transmission and got around 40mpg on the open road. Nothing can beat the fuel efficiency of a hybrid car in stop-and-go city conditions, but to me hybrid fuel efficiency on the highway really is not that impressive. The EPA keeps lowering hybrid efficiency estimates every model year, so it is hard to make an informed consumer choice when selecting a new vehicle based on operation cost. Someone has to come up with a workable plan for increasing a vehicle’s gas mileage when traveling on the highway. Also nobody has addressed the issue of tail pipe emissions of a hybrid car versus a comparable sized non-hybrid car, since many of the gadgets that are added to an engine to make the output cleaner often decreases gas mileage. So it is hard to make a vehicle choice based on environmental impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Interesting thread. Can't disagree with any of the posters. I'm the poster who switched from a full size Chevy van to a Prius and could save around $4,000 compared to the van. I'm not justifying a hybrid based on that comparison but I was interested that this switch could save that much gas. I do understand that I don't have the same capacities for passengers & cargo but the van became overkill for me as my family needs changed. Other posters are right in comparing a hybrid cost to the cost of a conventionally powered similarly sized high mileage vehicle. Using an average of 45 mpg for a Prius in all driving conditions should be fairly close. I'm not sure that using 35 mpg for a Camry would be an average. I'm sure it is a good estimate for highway mileage but not sure it would be that high for general average driving (combined city, highway, stop start etc.). Another reason why I pulled the plug to buy a Prius was that gas prices will not be going down in the future. There will be short term ups and downs but the big long-term trend is for our gas prices to approach the costs that Europeans are paying for gas now. I understand that the Europeans have addressed that issue by driving a high percentage of small diesel powered vehicles. Diesels have a difficult challenge in the US for various and complicated reasons, environmental being one. If an assumed gas price increase is factored into the savings calculations for a hybrid, the savings accrue much faster. Many reasons why I chose the Prius. Some do not make sense financially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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