1979 UE Football or 1985 BHS Football Team?

[Guest Guest]

Who cares what Frank thinks? Think there may be just a little bit of bias mixed in there???? I don't even buy that the '79 team was the best team in U-E history, let alone the section, let alone the state. They are a myth, hyped up by their coach as the best ever so they can hang on to and remember a great season eternally. Just because kids don't play D1 football doesn't mean their team wasn't better. A lot of kids are sick of playing football after high school when they've been playing since the age of 7 or 8 years old. A lot of people have other dreams and aspirations than being a "legend" on the gridiron, or on the BCVOICE Sports Forum.

 

Again, the '95 and '00 teams, had their been no state playoffs, would likely be touted as the "greatest of all time" by all you blind, biased Tiger fans. '95 won 11 games before losing to a team from Jamestown using illegal players, and eventually having their state title ripped. At 11-0, and beating Section 3 champ Henninger handily, it may be argued they were the best ever. In '00, they ran the table impressively, blowing teams out to the point where the 1st string barely played during the 2nd half of games. They beat Liverpool that year handily, a team who beat eventual Section 3 Champ Henninger. U-E won the Championship something like 35-0 that year over a Binghamton team whose only other loss was to U-E earlier in the season. Binghamton also punished teams outside of the section that year. At 10-0 and decidedly, far and away the best team in the area that year, with no state playoffs, we'd be talking about them as the best ever now wouldn't we? They lost on a hail mary to Henninger in the Regionals. Whose to say that '79 team wouldn't have bowed out of the state playoffs the way every other U-E team has in the history of the school?!?!

 

-Old U-E Alum

 

I think it's worth noting that that 2000 Henninger team was GREAT, and the fact that the '00 team outplayed them and just about took 'em down was a great feat in and of itself. Running Back Terry Butler, whose 2000 season ranks as the 10th best in the history of NYS, and ranked 1st in Section 3 history until Mike Hart came along, with 2,560 yards, was held to roughly 150 yards and 0 points. He was shut down more or less by one of the best defenses this area has seen. His career ranks as the 11th best among NYS RBs, 2nd in Section 3 history at 5,818 yards in just 2 seasons.

 

Greg Rommel, Henninger quarterback and eventual stand out on the Syracuse University lacross team, however, couldn't be contained. He threw for 3 TDs, including that hail mary you mention in the final minute of play. His career ranks as the 4th best in the history of New York State, behind Pauls, Zack Luke, and Matt Swedick. He threw for 6,118 yards from 1998-2001. It is the 2nd best career in Section 3 football history behind Paulus.

 

It also deserves mention that the 1995 Henninger team who was shut down and beaten handily by that Tiger team led by Isaiah Kacyvenski, had one of the greatest receivers New York State has ever seen in Marquis Walker, who went on to star at Michigan and played for some time with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. He has the 2nd most receptions in NYS thistory behind CBA's Bruce Williams, who played at Syracuse. He had 181 to Bruce's 227. Walker had 80 receptions in a season, which ranks 3rd in NYS and Section3 history. He has the 2nd greatest career in receiving yards in NYS history with 3,352, 2nd again only to Bruce Williams. Please note that Williams had Greg Paulus throwing to him as well.

 

Other note that I did not know. Fran Angeline had 216 career coaching victories, which ranks 15th in NYS history. It is 4th in Section 4 history behind Jim Hoover of Walton, Jim Haggerty of Tioga, and Dave Kelly of Delhi.

[Guest Guest]

Minor problem with your post, the USA Today wasn't started until 1982 so its pretty tough for a 75 or 79 team to be ranked by it...just thought you might want to know that

 

 

I sit corrected. I will try to remember to take a look at my copy of "A Tigers Tale" tonight for clarification. I know Fran mentioned Vestal's lofty ranking in his book. Maybe he mentioned who was doing the national ranking of HS footbal teams prior to USA Today.

 

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[Guest Guest]

I sit corrected. I will try to remember to take a look at my copy of "A Tigers Tale" tonight for clarification. I know Fran mentioned Vestal's lofty ranking in his book. Maybe he mentioned who was doing the national ranking of HS footbal teams prior to USA Today.

 

.

 

 

I guess that's This Tigers Tail

[Section4Mike]

Maybe he mentioned who was doing the national ranking of HS footbal teams prior to USA Today.

 

I may be mistaken, but I believe the two polls (USA Today and the national poll before it) are actually the same two polls, and that USA Today just took it over by sponsoring it when they came into being in the early 1980s.

 

Some creative googling could prove it if so.

 

Mike

 

[27 Time World Champions]

I may be mistaken, but I believe the two polls (USA Today and the national poll before it) are actually the same two polls, and that USA Today just took it over by sponsoring it when they came into being in the early 1980s.

 

Some creative googling could prove it if so.

 

Mike

 

Mike, I'd be curious to hear your take on the OP's question. Which school do you think had the better team?

 

Thanks

[Guest Guest]

1979 UE played nobody of national prominence and finished the year without any national ranking.

 

Vestal 1975 played nationally ranked Brockton, MA and beat them handily. Their Top 10 final ranking in the USA Today Rankings [4 or 5 I think] is still the best showing by any Section 4 Football Team ever.

 

BHS 1985 played the USA Today defending national champion [Ranked #1 at the time] and blew them away. With some of the same skill position players both the Football and Basketball teams finished ranked in the Top 15 USA Today Polls. Something no other school nation wide had done before. They had athletes that neither Vestal or UE could even dream to match.

 

The 1979 UE team deserves consideration in this conversation without question, but the answer is:

 

#1 1985 BHS

#2 1975 Vestal

#3 Maybe 1979 UE [ithaca had some teams that may have been better along with Vestal]

 

 

.

 

 

 

What a bunch of baloney. The USA today did not even exist when Vestal played in the 70s.

Those national ratings don't mean crap. Binghamton was ranked something like 12th in the nation in 1986 when a U.E. team beat them 20-6. That U.E. team was a shell of U.E. 79

 

U.E. 10 D1 players Binghamton 2 Chris Tollerson went to some podunk Middle Tennesee St. I don't know who the other supposed D1 player was on that roster. Rice and Coleman played basketball, Rice might have been a D1 player but Coleman wasn't. So we have U.E. 10 and Binghamton 3. No contest. U.E. wins 19 out of twenty times they play.

 

U.E. had more speed, more depth, better QB, better kicker , more size, more coordination and much smarter players.

[27 Time World Champions]

What a bunch of baloney. The USA today did not even exist when Vestal played in the 70s.

Those national ratings don't mean crap. Binghamton was ranked something like 12th in the nation in 1986 when a U.E. team beat them 20-6. That U.E. team was a shell of U.E. 79

 

U.E. 10 D1 players Binghamton 2 Chris Tollerson went to some podunk Middle Tennesee St. I don't know who the other supposed D1 player was on that roster. Rice and Coleman played basketball, Rice might have been a D1 player but Coleman wasn't. So we have U.E. 10 and Binghamton 3. No contest. U.E. wins 19 out of twenty times they play.

 

U.E. had more speed, more depth, better QB, better kicker , more size, more coordination and much smarter players.

 

Rick Coleman went to UMASS for football. A Division I school. He later transferred to Buffalo to play basketball along with teammate Robbie Middlebrooks and were incredibly successful. The 1986 Binghamton team (like the basketball team) was living off the reputation of the previous season. You can't even compare the 2 years. The 1985/1986 class was that much better.

 

I'll give you the depth and the kicking, but everything else is debatable. I still believe 1-11 Binghamton both offensively and defensively was faster, stronger and more talented.

 

Much smarter players? Do you really want to go there? Granted guys like Wendell Mack and Tony Marshall weren't rocket scientists, but they could ball with anybody and were completely fearless. That's another factor that has to be considered. The Binghamton guys were just a fearless bunch. Nothing scared them and they thrived on pressure.

 

In 20 games there is no way UE wins 19 out of 20. That just destroys your credibility right there. I'll be nice and give UE 8 wins to Binghamton's 12.

[27 Time World Champions]

Rice might have been a D1 player

 

Rice had his pick of colleges for football. Most notably Penn State. King tells a funny story about when Joe Paterno called his house. Also another one about when Dean Smith called. I still remember the time I saw Digger Phelps at BHS recruiting King. Rice came close to going to NC State and playing for Jim Valvano. He also came close to going to Syracuse but thought it was too close to home.

 

I started a thread like this a few years ago and it's pretty much getting the same response now. Both great teams and I'm going to end it here. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Section4Mike]

Mike, I'd be curious to hear your take on the OP's question. Which school do you think had the better team?

 

I prefer to stay out of this one.

 

Mike

[Guest Joe Lefebvre]

I'll wade in on this one ... Saw both teams play.

 

IMO : If they play 10 times - Binghamton wins 8.

 

Poor conditions would give UE a better shot - and the weather being what it is around here - you can count on 3 or 4 out of the ten being played on a slow track ...

 

Play 10 at the Dome and BHS would sweep or win 9 - most likely.

[Guest Guest]

 

 

Bingo. was too quick, fast and athletic for UE to play with on a dry field. Koban was the only skill position

player in the same league as BHS.

 

I never saw the 1975 Vestal team, so no comment on them.

 

.

[Guest Guest]

I still have programs from that '79 team, and the whole "size" thing baffles me. There was no size, just a bunch of lanky adolescents playing on the O-line. Who cares about how many D1 players the '79 team, if that's even true. D1 in '79 is nothing like today's D1. If you're not 6'2 playing on the line, they won't even recruit you. If you don't run a sub-4.6 40 yard dash at a skill position, they will not recruit you. Back then they gave scholarships to kids who could simply play football. That is not the case anymore. You will never see 10 scholarship D1 players at a NYS public school again, because if you're not a physical freak, you will not even get a sniff, regardless of your talent level. Actually, you can be an average ball player now, and if you're 6'3, you're getting a full-ride and becoming some schools "project red shirt." The fact that U-E had 10 D1 players is junk and means nothing - absolutely nothing!! None of those players even did anything in college except for Koban, and 8 of the 10 I bet never even saw the field in college. There's a reason those big-name schools don't recruit U-E anymore - it's because everyone they gave scholarships to back in the day FLOPPED! This '79 team is a hyped up myth who beat nobody even worth noting the way Binghamton did and the way other U-E teams did. Look what happened to your '90 team who was ranked #1 in the state the very first time they played a good team from out of the area. A Class B school from LI came up to our own field and EMBARASSED US by 20+ points!!!! That '90 team had a TON of returning players from that '89 team that was ranked Top 20 in USA Today the season before, which goes to show you how much that garbage means! U-E was over-hyped every single year, and you need only look at that '90 team as proof. Again, '79 wasn't even the best team in U-E history. I'll go with '89, '95, and '00 as better teams who accomplished more...

 

-Old U-E Alum

[Guest Guest]

well the 2004 spartans and the 2008 spartans were pretty good in their own right and deserved to be mentioned here.

[Guest Guest]

Vestal 1973

Vestal 1974

Vestal 1975

Those three teams combined for the bulk of Vestal's 36 game unbeaten streak.

 

The 1975 team was arguably one of the area's best team's ever.

[Guest Guest]

Minor problem with your post, the USA Today wasn't started until 1982 so its pretty tough for a 75 or 79 team to be ranked by it...just thought you might want to know that

 

 

It wasn't USA Today...it was The Sporting News...they ranked the 1975 Vestal team as 6th in the nation.

[Guest Guest]

well the 2004 spartans and the 2008 spartans were pretty good in their own right and deserved to be mentioned here.

 

 

Now THAT's funny!

[Guest hitting coach]

We have to mention them here because there was no "BC Voice" to run threads on back then!!!

[Guest Guest]

We have to mention them here because there was no "BC Voice" to run threads on back then!!!

 

 

Yes there was. Goes back to at least December 2000.

[Guest BP]

Have to give it to the 1979 UE Tigers. They had it all. But never saw a more dominating running back than the kid from Binghamton Patriots last year. He was a threat all over the field. Very intimidating.

[Guest Guest]

Binghamton 1985.

[Guest Guest]

Have to give it to the 1979 UE Tigers. They had it all. But never saw a more dominating running back than the kid from Binghamton Patriots last year. He was a threat all over the field. Very intimidating.

 

 

He was above average. That's it! I was very disapointed that he and his teamates got stuffed in the Section 4 final as bad as they did. He didn't dominate anything. Although, the coach has to eat most of the blame for that though disaster.

 

.

[Guest .]

BAAAAAhahahahahaha.

 

BHS: 42

UE: 17

 

I seen both teams play and have to agree. Although I think the score would have been closer. Something like BHS: 49, UE: 24.

[Guest hitting coach]

Did Larry Mucci referee both times? He was one of my favorite "big game" referees!

[Guest Guest]

whoever said the 2004 and 2008 spartans should be mentioned is completely right.

[Guest Guest-hammer65-*]

Binghamton had more black athletes.

 

The black is a better athlete to begin with because he's been bred to be that way — because of his high thighs and big thighs that goes up into his back, and they can jump higher and run faster because of their bigger thighs. This goes back all the way to the Civil War when during the slave trading, the owner — the slave owner would breed his big black to his big woman so that he could have a big black kid.

 

Therefore Binghamton was better than UE

 

 

WOW, i'll say this growing up in the area and graduating from Seton Catholic in 1983, I watched both teams play I would have to give the nod to the 1985/1986 BHS.

reasons is that everyone keeps talking about King rice, who was not the Best athlete in that school, BHS had speedsters at all positions and a ferocious hitting defense that included some mentally disturbed players that even had there alter egos getting press recognition. Though UE had some fast players, BHS was a fast team overall. they had over seven players that could run 4.6 or better in the 40 yard dash. 3 players that could run atleast 10.9 in the 100 meters. they had 9 all metro players. plus another seven that either had D1 offers or played D1. including (AA). Keep in mind that Berwick was the National Champions just a season or two before BHS played them and had not been beaten in five years. the team from vermont was also ranked in their state. the first two games of the 1985 season were against out of state teams. [41-14, 24-14]

 

***Key factor BHS was beating teams so badly that by the end of the second quarter the 2nd and 3rd string would be on the field. ***** that is was you call DEPTH and that was something scary to watch because the scores still ended up being 69-0,57-13,59-19 42-3 50-7........*********

 

BHS has an overwhelming amout of talent that DID NOT START OR END WITH KING RICE. 1985/1986 [coleman,tolerson,mack,middlebrooks] were better athletes