State to close Broome Developmental Center

[mulligan]

Just an idle thought.

 

With 166 Clients is it really necessary to have 692 full time employees serving them? Is that ratio common?

 

Maybe reducing the number of employees to around 300 will help in continuing the needed services? Or is it against CSEA policy to actually look for solutions?

There's more than 166 clients at the center.

[Bingoloid]

There's more than 166 clients at the center.

 

The Press did specifically say the center serves 166 people.

 

I did notice News 10 Now made a point of noting that the number of people served in these environments has been cut from 27,000 to 1,000 over the last 25 years. Is it possible that the center used to serve many more people and is down to 166 and is now being consolidated because it serves so few people? Or is it that the Press meant 1,660?

 

As far as whittling the number of employees down like JB proposed, that sounds good, but I wonder if the issue isn't that there's still too many fixed costs in keeping an entire facility open for 166 people.

[Bingoloid]

Broome Developmental has cared for a wide range of special needs people but not all of them need to be institutionalized. I am hoping that we gain a new neighbor on our street.

 

This is absolutely true, but at the same time, we have more than enough people who probably do need to be institutionalized wandering the area as it is, not just for the well-being of the community, but for the well-being of the people who aren't getting the kind of care they need.

 

I'm concerned that for every 1 person who will make a welcomed and beneficial addition to a neighborhood that improves their own lives, they're also pushing 1 out the door who is going to require regular, costly interventions from emergency services, hurt somebody, or get hurt themselves at the hands of jerks who think it's OK to take advantage of vulnerable people.

 

I've gotten crap for pointing this out before, but we all know "Elvis", and a few of us have seen that he's seemed quite terrified when he's in enclosed spaces with strangers (like elevators). I have long suspected people have done some cruel things to him just for being different. I know it's a difficult subject, but even when we're talking about people we all agree are harmless, I don't think it's always true that putting people with difficulties back in the mainstream of society is the best thing for them.

[JoeTheDrunk]

Waste... over 4 Employees to care for each patient.

 

Take into account three shifts.

[JoeTheDrunk]

 

Take into account three shifts.

 

Plus weekends.

[The Mole]

I’m disgusted to hear of whats going on at the Great Binghamton Health Center and now the closing of Broome Developmental.

 

My heart and concerns go out to the patients but all those at risk of job loss.

 

 

Overall this area is looking at a loss of 1000 jobs. The local job development agency the BCIDA certainly cannot make up the difference. On top of this are numerous PILOTS, tax deals special economic zones all in which favor special interests while the rest of the taxpayers, pay and pay. The tax payers are being pushed to the breaking point.

 

Is there another agenda afoot considering the State of New York is so deeply involved yet throwing around tax dollars like its’ candy.

 

Is the effort really towards economically depressing an area so the state can then come in and push a pro fracking agenda?

 

After all I recently saw Debbie Preston screaming into a microphone that 5 years was too long for an answer and she wants an answer now in regards to fracking.

 

Crush an area economically and then they’ll take anything including fracking.

 

The state is involved in both of these locations. Are they now admitting they cannot run these facilities ??

 

Sorry... This area is being victimized !

[Bingoloid]

Is the effort really towards economically depressing an area so the state can then come in and push a pro fracking agenda?

 

After all I recently saw Debbie Preston screaming into a microphone that 5 years was too long for an answer and she wants an answer now in regards to fracking.

 

Crush an area economically and then they’ll take anything including fracking.

 

The state is involved in both of these locations. Are they now admitting they cannot run these facilities ??

 

Sorry... This area is being victimized !

 

The area is being victimized, but I should point out that "throwing around taxpayer money", we really don't produce much by way of taxes here. Not just because of the welfare recipients, but even the people who are productive members of society are overwhelmingly relatively low-income with low-value homes, and once they start a family and get the earned income tax credit, etc., they're generally net recipients, too.

 

It's downstate money subsidizing the area, and has been for years. Without the tax breaks and public employment from programs like these and the disposable income brought into the area by SUNY, this would be mini-Detroit. All of those new taxpayer dollars getting thrown around are in the hopes of offsetting the loss from the other taxpayer money they aren't throwing around anymore.

 

Honestly, I don't think anything can rescue this area at this point unless we do something about the economic isolation. As it stands, without government programs funneling cash into the area to give people disposable income, there's really no reason for anybody else to do business here or live here. Even construction workers seem to be relying overwhelmingly on the college expansion projects to generate work. There's really only one part of the state that has any real opportunities, and we have no rail or air link to it for freelancers, split-timers, and entrepreneurs, people with marketable skills who want to do business there and earn real money to spend in a low-cost area like this. A number of people do it and it really does work, the arbitrage works out to make it profitable for everybody involved, but it's just more difficult than it has to be right now.

 

There is no "next IBM" or "another EJ". Unless we do something drastically different, we're gradually turning into a little ruin of an abandoned city, forgotten in the mountains, and no matter how much money we scrounge up for policing, it won't reduce crime as long as the only people who find the area desirable are dirtbags who don't care about finding a job and only want the cheapest house Section 8 will subsidize. Even if it could, the law abiding local residents earning minimum wage are never going to be paying enough taxes to make that policing happen.

[PeteMoss]

 

 

There is no "next IBM" or "another EJ". Unless we do something drastically different, we're gradually turning into a little ruin of an abandoned city, forgotten in the mountains, and no matter how much money we scrounge up for policing, it won't reduce crime as long as the only people who find the area desirable are dirtbags who don't care about finding a job and only want the cheapest house Section 8 will subsidize. Even if it could, the law abiding local residents earning minimum wage are never going to be paying enough taxes to make that policing happen.

Absolutely true.

 

One thing we can do, is to buy local. Really buy local. Farmer's market, local restaurants instead of the chains, small stores instead of the big box stores.

Keep the money in this area. Next is to keep it in the state. Then keep it in this country.

 

I know, this is extremely difficult. Food is easy but the rest is difficult. I hate going to PA and seeing gas 30 cents cheaper a gallon.

 

Also we need to reduce sales taxes. Make it less profitable to travel to shop. Let PA people buy here at their sales tax rate.

[ginger]

What's the status of the Vestal and Willow Point construction projects? Perhaps a public /private partnership at the BDC site could be workable? Could save jobs and provide for those remaining in need of skilled nursing care? It's a very good location, on a bus line...just a thought.

[Bingoloid]

Absolutely true.

 

One thing we can do, is to buy local. Really buy local. Farmer's market, local restaurants instead of the chains, small stores instead of the big box stores.

Keep the money in this area. Next is to keep it in the state. Then keep it in this country.

 

I agree at a basic level, but the larger point is that the area is broke, so buying local doesn't help much, since, no offense to anybody, but a lot of locals just can't afford to buy anything to begin with. We've all seen the discussions on here about how an $8 lunch special is outrageously expensive or how people feel like they need a second mortgage to eat at Cortese. Even the Macy's at the mall generally limits their stock to lower-end and middling items because they know nobody here can afford the higher end of their range, and that's Macy's, not a particularly highfalutin joint to begin with. Unless we find ways to engage with other markets and bring in cash from outside the area (which is how this area was built in the first place), from people who actually already have cash, we're pretty well sunk.

 

There's a big difference in economic impact between encouraging someone who earns minimum wage, rents a room, and is struggling to keep an old car on the road to buy local, versus sending the same message to someone who pulls down $80k and is probably having their home remodeled, buying a piece of art, looking for a new television, replacing the car every few years, planning a vacation, has a retirement pan, is interested in furniture, can afford to sign their kids up for activities outside of school, and takes their girl out regularly. We can't turn things around simply by hoarding all of our nothing.

[The Mole]

I do wholeheartedly agree that there will never be another IBM or EJs. It's just cheaper to produce abroad. The greed factor has taken care of that.

The throwing around of taxpayers money is just that. Local government has mismanaged funds for years. Basically throwing up paint as I like to call it, instead of taking care of needed infrastructure repairs.

 

The state is also guilty but they not only have not done needed repairs but kick out grants and make tax break deals to entities that can readily afford to survive without any grant or deal.

 

I really have a problem with the "downstate subsidizing upstate" belief. That doesn't wash. If you think this entire area does not generate a lot of taxes I suggest you drive around the area a bit more. There is no way anyone can tell me there's money problems in western Broome County. The McMansions are many and the taxes along with them. There is also quite a bit of disposable income in this area... Drive around, you'll see it !!! Granted there are some areas paying lower taxes than others but the brunt of the problem comes from management of those funds.

 

Let's take a look at how Debbie Preston just OK'ed a major tax break to a local project. There will be 12 Million dollars in lost tax revenue. That's something the tax payers will have to make up. Meanwhile the business is more than capable of building and sustaining itself.

 

Another big killer around here is the nonprofits. Take a look at your next tax bill. You pay for everything yet the nonprofits get the same services as you but they don't pay into the system. *AND* this area has about 50% ( if memory serves me) of all taxable property as non profit or tax exempt. The loss of tax money there is staggering.

 

Take a look again at your tax bill. The greatest cost on it is the welfare roles. We have allowed to be created in this area a dependent economy that will bleed itself dry in a very short period of time.

 

All of this is known by Albany so any action they take like these recent closings is only making it worse. We are being played.

 

Now how to change this ? We are at the crossroads in the southern tier. We have beautiful countrysides, great hunting, fishing, etc. In the immediate area we don't even advertise it !!! We have the perfect area for cycle racing yet there is only one event that anyone hears of. Due to our location we should be selling the area as a distribution hub. We have rail and air service for cargo.

 

We have two fantastic schools that are getting world known. We need to rally around them and support them. I'm not up for the special tax zones though.

 

I have to get back to the downstate taxes backing upstate. No way. Downstate costs are significantly greater than ours so I am hard pressed to go with your statement. As a matter of fact I keep seeing more and more downstaters moving here because it's cheaper. They are also taking advantage of our programs and they love it.

 

What hurts this area is the tunnel vision of getting another IBM or EJs. Think smaller, like small town USA. How did they build. How did they survive. Once an equitable business / resident(tax payer) base is established and it is stabilized it becomes a self funding entity. What kills it is the giveaways. Whether welfare or tax deals, anything that takes away for the equitable give and take erodes the economy eventually resulting in collapse.

 

What is killing this area is all the special deals and the fact that so much of the businesses or property they reside on is owned by the same families, the same clicks, the same old same old and who wants to have to pay tribute to a small town power broker just to do business. THAT is why we don't move ahead. Local corruption via the IDA, tax deals and the numerous LLC's that actually control the economy around here. Look at EIT. The number of LLC's is staggering. Even the court is mystified by it. Just look at the names to have it make sense.

 

The best thing for this area is not a democrat, not a republican but someone with enough guts to present reality and not have their strings pulled. We are all suffering because of this and these closing DO NOT have to happen. All you have to do is look at the amount of free dollars New York State has thrown around lately. The whole problem is politics and an unwillingness to admit they don't know what they're doing... Then again they may know exactly what they're doing and that is to purposely depress an area.

 

This area has a need for these facilities furthermore they are at a crossroad for transportation. Both of these facilities have had money thrown at them, whose been in charge that the state is now scratching their head ? I'm sorry if some don't agree but when a person is put into an institution it is for a reason. To take people that need oversight, need daily care and to push them into a community home doesn't make sense. There are some homes that work well and I've seen them and been in them but you cannot just keep pushing people in need around like pawns. If Broome Dev has a small number of patients then why wasn't the workforce dropped accordingly ?? Don't blame Unions either. There is such a thing as cuts.

 

This whole deal doesn't sit well as I feel it is treating patients like pawns and disregarding what is best . Why do I say this ? It's awful funny how all of a sudden the best thing to do is shutdown and put the patients into community housing. Where's the study ? Where's the reports ? Show me dollar figures. Show me patient needs vs what can be done in a community home.

[The Mole]

What's the status of the Vestal and Willow Point construction projects? Perhaps a public /private partnership at the BDC site could be workable? Could save jobs and provide for those remaining in need of skilled nursing care? It's a very good location, on a bus line...just a thought.

Ahhh!!!... Thank you Ginger !!

I was looking at the same direction when these projects came about. There was supposed to be a new nursing home built at the Greater Binghamton Health Center to replace Willow Point.

There is going to be built a new nursing home built in Vestal off Route 26. They are getting tax deals even though the owners own 11 other nursing homes. ( I guess nursing homes aren't profitable.)

 

I suggested that they build a super nursing home, county and private partnership at the GBHC site. It is readily accessible in about 20 minute from all of the cities and towns. It has buses running all the time. You could even put a direct access ramp to it from the highway.

 

For some strange reason the powers that be think that is an alien concept. Problem is the Vestal site is steeped in LLC wheeling and dealings. They'll never give up that site, they're selling it to themselves.

 

Now consider that at one time they were looking at a nurse training facility at the GBHC.

 

I'd push even further. The property up there is HUGE !!! I would push for a nursing school, nursing home, regional trauma center with a helipad. It's high, it's dry, you can get to it !!!

 

*BUT* What kills this whole idea is POLITICS and BS !!! Believe me this would work, would employ hundreds and is a heck of a lot easier to get to than Elmira or points further north.

 

Pardon my getting off topic and anger but I've seen too much to just stand for the status quo. This area can change, it can survive. I wish I had access to the capital to get the GBHC. It would be the diamond of the Southern Tier in nursing, patient and elderly care !

 

Forget everything I've said.... I must be nuts ......

[Latin Lover]

 

I agree at a basic level, but the larger point is that the area is broke, so buying local doesn't help much, since, no offense to anybody, but a lot of locals just can't afford to buy anything to begin with. We've all seen the discussions on here about how an $8 lunch special is outrageously expensive or how people feel like they need a second mortgage to eat at Cortese. Even the Macy's at the mall generally limits their stock to lower-end and middling items because they know nobody here can afford the higher end of their range, and that's Macy's, not a particularly highfalutin joint to begin with. Unless we find ways to engage with other markets and bring in cash from outside the area (which is how this area was built in the first place), from people who actually already have cash, we're pretty well sunk.

 

There's a big difference in economic impact between encouraging someone who earns minimum wage, rents a room, and is struggling to keep an old car on the road to buy local, versus sending the same message to someone who pulls down $80k and is probably having their home remodeled, buying a piece of art, looking for a new television, replacing the car every few years, planning a vacation, has a retirement pan, is interested in furniture, can afford to sign their kids up for activities outside of school, and takes their girl out regularly. We can't turn things around simply by hoarding all of our nothing.

This guy gets it.

[Bingoloid]

Re: The Mole (I don't want to fiddle with the interface quoting this properly)

 

 

I do wholeheartedly agree that there will never be another IBM or EJs. It's just cheaper to produce abroad. The greed factor has taken care of that.

 

 

More than that, China is losing manufacturing jobs faster than we are. Automation is even replacing the peasant laborer. The era of minimally skilled labor is more or less over. Even if we bring manufacturing back to the area, it will be a different kind of manufacturing that requires engineering, information technology, and computer science backgrounds. (Ford is adding thousands of jobs in Detroit right now, and those are exactly what they're hiring for.)

 

The throwing around of taxpayers money is just that. Local government has mismanaged funds for years. Basically throwing up paint as I like to call it, instead of taking care of needed infrastructure repairs.

 

Agreed.

 

I really have a problem with the "downstate subsidizing upstate" belief. That doesn't wash. If you think this entire area does not generate a lot of taxes I suggest you drive around the area a bit more. There is no way anyone can tell me there's money problems in western Broome County. The McMansions are many and the taxes along with them. There is also quite a bit of disposable income in this area... Drive around, you'll see it !!! Granted there are some areas paying lower taxes than others but the brunt of the problem comes from management of those funds.

 

The state transfers about ten billion dollars of tax payments from downstate to upstate every year. That's before we even talk about federal tax dollars. Yes, we have some McMansions, but they're hardly "many", and the values of those properties are often lower than even an average home in many parts of downstate. If you have to drive around and search for it, that's really the point: it's the exception to the rule, and it's not nearly enough to pay for providing services in the great expanses of poor neighborhoods that you see in most of the area.

 

Another big killer around here is the nonprofits. Take a look at your next tax bill. You pay for everything yet the nonprofits get the same services as you but they don't pay into the system. *AND* this area has about 50% ( if memory serves me) of all taxable property as non profit or tax exempt. The loss of tax money there is staggering. Take a look again at your tax bill. The greatest cost on it is the welfare roles. We have allowed to be created in this area a dependent economy that will bleed itself dry in a very short period of time.

 

Total agreement, again. However, this is largely because this area is disproportionately poor and disproportionately reliant on charity. It sort of goes to the point I was making, don't you think? We need to dilute this with something else, something that pays.

 

 

Now how to change this ? We are at the crossroads in the southern tier. We have beautiful countrysides, great hunting, fishing, etc. In the immediate area we don't even advertise it !!! We have the perfect area for cycle racing yet there is only one event that anyone hears of. Due to our location we should be selling the area as a distribution hub. We have rail and air service for cargo.

 

I have to get back to the downstate taxes backing upstate. No way. Downstate costs are significantly greater than ours so I am hard pressed to go with your statement. As a matter of fact I keep seeing more and more downstaters moving here because it's cheaper. They are also taking advantage of our programs and they love it.

 

Downstate costs are significantly greater, but so are incomes per capita, the median home values, and the sheer number of people with those higher earnings and more valuable properties paying taxes.

 

That said, I bring these two sentences up together because you're getting at my own point: this area is not just a distribution hub, but ideally positioned relative to a huge percentage of the North American economy. I can tell you for a fact that some area lawyers pad their income by doing work downstate for clients who can actually afford to pay them, and that there are more technology professionals in the area working downstate than anybody realizes. I know this because I'm part of that community, and travel down about once every six weeks. As a result, I earn about two or three times what local employers pay for my same job, contribute a huge portion of that money to the local economy, live a great lifestyle here at a fraction of what it would cost downstate (I pay 20% of what my colleagues in Manhattan pay for similar housing), and it's a good deal for my employer, because they don't have to maintain an expensive workspace for me in Manhattan and can negotiate a little arbitrage in there, probably paying me about 15% less than they would a local.

 

I'm not bragging, I'm just trying to make the point that the numbers work for this for everybody involved. We shouldn't just be marketing this area as a distribution hub for transportation, but as a great place to set up low-cost satellite facilities for all kinds of skilled workers in creative and tech fields, where their employees can live a generous lifestyle for less and enjoy the outdoors, potentially staffed with the assistance of the university. (Many BU students express an interest in the area, but just can't stay because there's nothing here.) The biggest obstacle to this, in my view, is that Binghamton is so isolated as far as transportation goes that people in New York often think we're out by Buffalo. There aren't too many people who are very keen on riding a bus three hours up here or wasting the valuable time behind the wheel, and I do get the impression that there's favoritism toward Albany or the Philadelphia area for this purpose simply because they're on the rail network and easier for managers to travel to. There are other reasons for people to come here than to take advantage of social programs, but we have to do the legwork to communicate with businesses who might have a case for getting involved in the area and match them up with those locally who can make it happen. The county and the city are notoriously bad about even returning phone calls.

 

What hurts this area is the tunnel vision of getting another IBM or EJs. Think smaller, like small town USA. How did they build. How did they survive. Once an equitable business / resident(tax payer) base is established and it is stabilized it becomes a self funding entity. What kills it is the giveaways. Whether welfare or tax deals, anything that takes away for the equitable give and take erodes the economy eventually resulting in collapse.

 

In fairness, much of "small town USA" is not surviving. I believe 1 in 3 American counties are losing population, they are overwhelmingly the rural ones, and literally dying as only the retirees are left behind. Workers are moving on to the growing cities where the opportunities are. If we're going to make it at all, yes, we need to stop pretending that we can overcome the big, irresistible trends like the end of high-paying work for minimally skilled laborers through manufacturing, but we also need to be honest with ourselves about how far this area has slipped outside of the mainstream of the American economy and start looking at how to participate in it again. As it stands, this is turning into the Northeast Corridor's Phantom Zone, where the area's unemployables get sent never to be heard from again, and things that are considered mundane to the rest of the country (like sending your kids to a public university) seem like the unreachable domain of the wealthy.

[The Mole]

Bing - Second from last paragraph.... We are in total agreement. This are cannot or refuses to sell itself. Then again I have to wonder how much of the LLC problem is controlling that. We have incredible brain assets here but you are correct in their not able to stay due to lack of jobs. One of the things I pushed for was and I hate to say this.... When 9-11 happened I stated that we should have been offering office space cheaply just to relocate some businesses up here. I am in total agreement that the area especially in regards to offices, etc, this area is lacking in state of the art facilities. It's not that the utilities aren't there, the buildings themselves are archaic. We need to keep the best of the old but tear down and start to build new.

 

Small town USA. What is happening is that there is a culture of youth not wanting to do sweat labor. Many smaller towns were built up around an industry or agriculture. Industry gone, jobs gone. Farm gone, town gone. That can be staved off. Even if there are just service jobs you can get a stabilized economy, once again there cannot be imposed drain. I believe many jobs could be created in this area if farming was undertaken again. It's a start but who want to get their hands dirty?

 

As far as spendable income..... You can't prove to me there's a problem there. All I have to do is get on the parkway on the weekend. Every food joint is loaded up and the plazas are full. Plus the cars are relatively new. Now, if we don;t have the jobs and the spendable dollars and looking at the number of home in the hills and what they cost added into it the newness of the cars..... There has to be quite a few people living outside of their means.

[mulligan]

I do wholeheartedly agree that there will never be another IBM or EJs. It's just cheaper to produce abroad. The greed factor has taken care of that.

The throwing around of taxpayers money is just that. Local government has mismanaged funds for years. Basically throwing up paint as I like to call it, instead of taking care of needed infrastructure repairs.

 

The state is also guilty but they not only have not done needed repairs but kick out grants and make tax break deals to entities that can readily afford to survive without any grant or deal.

 

I really have a problem with the "downstate subsidizing upstate" belief. That doesn't wash. If you think this entire area does not generate a lot of taxes I suggest you drive around the area a bit more. There is no way anyone can tell me there's money problems in western Broome County. The McMansions are many and the taxes along with them. There is also quite a bit of disposable income in this area... Drive around, you'll see it !!! Granted there are some areas paying lower taxes than others but the brunt of the problem comes from management of those funds.

 

Let's take a look at how Debbie Preston just OK'ed a major tax break to a local project. There will be 12 Million dollars in lost tax revenue. That's something the tax payers will have to make up. Meanwhile the business is more than capable of building and sustaining itself.

 

Another big killer around here is the nonprofits. Take a look at your next tax bill. You pay for everything yet the nonprofits get the same services as you but they don't pay into the system. *AND* this area has about 50% ( if memory serves me) of all taxable property as non profit or tax exempt. The loss of tax money there is staggering.

 

Take a look again at your tax bill. The greatest cost on it is the welfare roles. We have allowed to be created in this area a dependent economy that will bleed itself dry in a very short period of time.

 

All of this is known by Albany so any action they take like these recent closings is only making it worse. We are being played.

 

Now how to change this ? We are at the crossroads in the southern tier. We have beautiful countrysides, great hunting, fishing, etc. In the immediate area we don't even advertise it !!! We have the perfect area for cycle racing yet there is only one event that anyone hears of. Due to our location we should be selling the area as a distribution hub. We have rail and air service for cargo.

 

We have two fantastic schools that are getting world known. We need to rally around them and support them. I'm not up for the special tax zones though.

 

I have to get back to the downstate taxes backing upstate. No way. Downstate costs are significantly greater than ours so I am hard pressed to go with your statement. As a matter of fact I keep seeing more and more downstaters moving here because it's cheaper. They are also taking advantage of our programs and they love it.

 

What hurts this area is the tunnel vision of getting another IBM or EJs. Think smaller, like small town USA. How did they build. How did they survive. Once an equitable business / resident(tax payer) base is established and it is stabilized it becomes a self funding entity. What kills it is the giveaways. Whether welfare or tax deals, anything that takes away for the equitable give and take erodes the economy eventually resulting in collapse.

 

What is killing this area is all the special deals and the fact that so much of the businesses or property they reside on is owned by the same families, the same clicks, the same old same old and who wants to have to pay tribute to a small town power broker just to do business. THAT is why we don't move ahead. Local corruption via the IDA, tax deals and the numerous LLC's that actually control the economy around here. Look at EIT. The number of LLC's is staggering. Even the court is mystified by it. Just look at the names to have it make sense.

 

The best thing for this area is not a democrat, not a republican but someone with enough guts to present reality and not have their strings pulled. We are all suffering because of this and these closing DO NOT have to happen. All you have to do is look at the amount of free dollars New York State has thrown around lately. The whole problem is politics and an unwillingness to admit they don't know what they're doing... Then again they may know exactly what they're doing and that is to purposely depress an area.

 

This area has a need for these facilities furthermore they are at a crossroad for transportation. Both of these facilities have had money thrown at them, whose been in charge that the state is now scratching their head ? I'm sorry if some don't agree but when a person is put into an institution it is for a reason. To take people that need oversight, need daily care and to push them into a community home doesn't make sense. There are some homes that work well and I've seen them and been in them but you cannot just keep pushing people in need around like pawns. If Broome Dev has a small number of patients then why wasn't the workforce dropped accordingly ?? Don't blame Unions either. There is such a thing as cuts.

 

This whole deal doesn't sit well as I feel it is treating patients like pawns and disregarding what is best . Why do I say this ? It's awful funny how all of a sudden the best thing to do is shutdown and put the patients into community housing. Where's the study ? Where's the reports ? Show me dollar figures. Show me patient needs vs what can be done in a community home.

 

 

This area needs non profits Give me a list of them there aren't that many

[Bingoloid]

Bing - Second from last paragraph.... We are in total agreement. This are cannot or refuses to sell itself. Then again I have to wonder how much of the LLC problem is controlling that. We have incredible brain assets here but you are correct in their not able to stay due to lack of jobs. One of the things I pushed for was and I hate to say this.... When 9-11 happened I stated that we should have been offering office space cheaply just to relocate some businesses up here. I am in total agreement that the area especially in regards to offices, etc, this area is lacking in state of the art facilities. It's not that the utilities aren't there, the buildings themselves are archaic. We need to keep the best of the old but tear down and start to build new.

 

One of my tasks at a previous, local employer was scouting office sites when they decided to relocate closer to downtown Binghamton.

 

It was bad. It was really, really, really bad, and none of the so-called "property managers" seemed to have any idea what was going on or what sort of amenities are needed to operate a modern business. When I went solo for a while after that, I thought about expanding and ran into the same thing. Obviously, C&G had a rough time of it after the fire, too, because look how far out they ended up moving just to find a suitable space after the Press Building was crippled.

 

 

Small town USA. What is happening is that there is a culture of youth not wanting to do sweat labor. Many smaller towns were built up around an industry or agriculture. Industry gone, jobs gone. Farm gone, town gone. That can be staved off. Even if there are just service jobs you can get a stabilized economy, once again there cannot be imposed drain. I believe many jobs could be created in this area if farming was undertaken again. It's a start but who want to get their hands dirty?

 

Honestly, I think it's partly that, but ultimately, regardless of the nature of the work, the gap between the quality of life in rural America and urban America has never been higher. There's just not much to make a kid even wish they could stay on the farm, even if the pay is good and the work is easy. To a lot of locals, "urban" means "Binghamton", as in, "poor, ill-maintained, crime", but overall, working people who live in cities in this country now have not just the usual things people cite for drawing young people away, like more economic opportunities and options for shopping, dining, and entertainment, but typically just enjoy longer, healthier lives and see their kids through higher levels of education. Crime, teen pregnancy, drug use, and those types of problems are often just as bad, if not worse in rural areas. (Even locally, look at statistics on Chenango versus Broome counties. It's surprising, and I'd imagine it's going to get worse, because the drug problem seems to be exploding up there.) "Small town America" doesn't really consistently mean the nice things it used to mean, and I think a lot of people just don't see the purpose of trying to raise their kids in it anymore.

 

As far as spendable income..... You can't prove to me there's a problem there. All I have to do is get on the parkway on the weekend. Every food joint is loaded up and the plazas are full. Plus the cars are relatively new. Now, if we don;t have the jobs and the spendable dollars and looking at the number of home in the hills and what they cost added into it the newness of the cars..... There has to be quite a few people living outside of their means.

 

I think that the idea that this area is poor-to-middling as far as wealth goes is pretty well settled. Again, not trying to sound arrogant, but the fact that we're impressed by people with "relatively new" cars eating at low-to-mid-scale chain restaurants sort of makes the point that what we consider our area's high end is comparable to what more successful communities would describe as "average" or "working to lower middle class". Perhaps most important, though, focusing on that ignores that for all of those late-model Hyundais at the Olive Garden, we have great numbers of working and non-working poor living in housing that would be condemned in many cities, people who use a bus pass to go shopping and would consider dining out at one of those places to be a true luxury.

 

If you drive Main Street instead of the Parkway, you'll see a whole lot more people having a very different weekend, you know? In some areas, crummy neighborhoods are the exception that everyone whispers about and hopes to avoid. For us, like many Rust Belt towns, it's frequently the other way around. Think about how many people we know (and see on here) who will only go to restaurants on the Parkway because they're (irrationally) afraid of the rest of the area?

 

We have a lot of great people here who work really hard, but that middle/upper class that produces the big chunks of tax revenue that keeps most successful areas paved and policed has been dwindling for a long time, and the upscale retail/service businesses that typically cater to them really struggle here. Notice how every time even a fairly modest, mid-scale business moves out of the mall, there's seems to be a 75% chance that it's replaced by a dollar/discount-type store?

[ginger]

Ahhh!!!... Thank you Ginger !!

I was looking at the same direction when these projects came about. There was supposed to be a new nursing home built at the Greater Binghamton Health Center to replace Willow Point.

There is going to be built a new nursing home built in Vestal off Route 26. They are getting tax deals even though the owners own 11 other nursing homes. ( I guess nursing homes aren't profitable.)

 

I suggested that they build a super nursing home, county and private partnership at the GBHC site. It is readily accessible in about 20 minute from all of the cities and towns. It has buses running all the time. You could even put a direct access ramp to it from the highway.

 

For some strange reason the powers that be think that is an alien concept. Problem is the Vestal site is steeped in LLC wheeling and dealings. They'll never give up that site, they're selling it to themselves.

 

Now consider that at one time they were looking at a nurse training facility at the GBHC.

 

I'd push even further. The property up there is HUGE !!! I would push for a nursing school, nursing home, regional trauma center with a helipad. It's high, it's dry, you can get to it !!!

 

*BUT* What kills this whole idea is POLITICS and BS !!! Believe me this would work, would employ hundreds and is a heck of a lot easier to get to than Elmira or points further north.

 

Pardon my getting off topic and anger but I've seen too much to just stand for the status quo. This area can change, it can survive. I wish I had access to the capital to get the GBHC. It would be the diamond of the Southern Tier in nursing, patient and elderly care !

 

Forget everything I've said.... I must be nuts ......

I thought. or had hoped the Robinson St facility (mansion) was going to be home to a geri-psychiatry progam which, from what I understand is an in demand field. I can't understand the push by SUNY for a pharmacy school except that it's a fairly popular curriculum. I like your ideas though. Dream big!

[PARMELEE]

How refreshing to see an intelligent conversation for change...Thanks people...You all hit the nail on the head and have great ideas ..I only wish to the creator someone is listening....Talk about "Good Ol Boys" controlling things.. remember the Akels and Wegmans blockade ??...

[Bingoloid]

Might as well throw this in there, the next business that is trying to reduce their exposure to this area: Friendly's.

 

http://www.pressconnects.com/article/20130729/BUSINESS/307290043/Vestal-Johnson-City-Friendly-s-restaurants-shutter-doors-Wednesday

 

We're losing the Vestal Parkway and Oakdale Mall locations. In fairness, those two locations probably cost a fortune to operate, but still, it seems that their long-term strategy is to stop trying to compete with the lower-end chain restaurants like Friday's and Applebee's and instead go for higher quality. I might be reading too much into it, but it's interesting that they don't see a way to make those stores work.

[The Mole]

Hey Bing...

You mentioned the amount of tax dollars being funneled from downstate to upstate. I'm not doubting you but could you pass on the source if available. The reason I'm asking is that I'm looking at not only the non-profit tax exempt entities in this area but groups like the IDA that has control over the many tax deals and the State of New York's move to create more tax free zones.

If what you say is true it does not bode well for this area as it would show this area has been something of a zombie or the walking dead, economically. In other words , it died, economically, years ago. The question then comes down to how to get it alive again.

[ndirish]

 

 

This area needs non profits Give me a list of them there aren't that many

 

We may need SOME, but remember, it's not just nonprofits that pay no property taxes. It's every single square foot of property owned by schools, churches, state/county/city/town governments, etc. This includes colleges, cemeteries, soup kitchens, senior centers, ball fields, group homes, airports, parks, etc. Take a drive around Binghamton sometime, and try to make a mental note when you pass one of these. There are many. I believe the above poster who stated over 50% is correct.

[Bingoloid]

Hey Bing...

You mentioned the amount of tax dollars being funneled from downstate to upstate. I'm not doubting you but could you pass on the source if available. The reason I'm asking is that I'm looking at not only the non-profit tax exempt entities in this area but groups like the IDA that has control over the many tax deals and the State of New York's move to create more tax free zones.

If what you say is true it does not bode well for this area as it would show this area has been something of a zombie or the walking dead, economically. In other words , it died, economically, years ago. The question then comes down to how to get it alive again.

 

Sure, here is a relatively recent one:

 

http://nystateofpolitics.com/2011/12/downstate-shouldering-upstate/

 

Honestly, I'm not sure why this is controversial, except that people just desperately want to believe otherwise. New York is so dependent on downstate's economy that the taxes from Wall Street bonuses alone can make or break parts of the state budget. Downstate, in dense areas, in an area the size of the City of Binghamton (40,000+ people), you'll often have hundreds of thousands or even millions of taxpayers with much higher average incomes, and the properties under their feet are worth at least a few times more, and in some areas dozens of times more. Sure, in some ways, the expenses to serve that area are higher, but in other ways, it's much more efficient to provide services (simple example: circling the block with a snowplow or a police car might serve a few hundred taxpayers instead of a couple dozen and they're sharing that cost, or the bridge across a river is going to serve hundreds of thousands or millions of vehicles in a period where it might only see tens of thousands up here, even though it still requires a lot of the same inspections and maintenance as time passes). With higher incomes, they're spending more money into local businesses, filling storefronts and offices that also pay taxes.

.

If we were running this area on our own money alone (especially without the colleges pumping paychecks into the area and bringing some spending money into the region with students from families of a little means), it would be like Appalachia. A lot of people would tell you that from their point of view, it already is (which I think is somewhat unfair, but also understandable).

 

I think the non-profits are an interesting point, but bear in mind that a lot of these organizations get those properties because local government can't find anyone else to take them, and that the alternative may be another abandoned, dilapidated property, and in those cases, turning it into a park or handing it over to a charity that will at least fix the roof and keep the basement dry might be the only hope. Many of this area's amenities are hanging on by a thread as it is, and it's not like there's some hidden demand waiting, where developers would jump in and pay taxes if only it weren't for the meddling non-profits. The real problem is that very few people want to be here who can afford to be anywhere else (or, put another way, they have hopes and dreams that mean they can't afford to stay here no matter how low the taxes get or how cheap the housing is, since there's no real path to fulfilling them here). If you want to increase the percentage of properties paying taxes, that's the real issue. We can talk about buying from local farmers or taxing non-profits, but it's almost like we're clawing each others' eyes out over the rest of America's table scraps.

[Guest RogerRebuttal]

Just an idle thought.

 

With 166 Clients is it really necessary to have 692 full time employees serving them? Is that ratio common?

 

Maybe reducing the number of employees to around 300 will help in continuing the needed services? Or is it against CSEA policy to actually look for solutions?

If you knew the population they were dealing with, you'd have a better perspective. Studies are performed on staffing, and the state has to fulfill those obligations. Trust me, there is a lot of thought put into staffing. This isn't a desk job, every staff member receives training in behavioral management.

 

BCVOICE is the Monday morning quarterback of Binghamton.

[Guest RogerRebuttal]

Waste... over 4 Employees to care for each patient.

 

this isn't UFC... it takes 4 people and more sometimes to restrain one individual... that leaves 4 or more people on 1 person to de-escalate a problem. Now, your staffing has changed on 1 incident. How many incidents do you think they have per day in a psych center??? Once again, you don't know the clientele as well as some of us do. They are people with the physical strength of more than your average person, and they are violent toward staff and others often. If the state says they needed that many people, they needed that many people.

 

the public sector isn't your common day private sector job of 9-5. Its 24/7... Let the state determine staffing, you people have no clue on the subject.