BubbaGump Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Well maybe we should ban anyone from traveling to or from Africa until they have a lid on Ebola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sengui Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Well maybe we should ban anyone from traveling to or from Africa until they have a lid on Ebola Political correctness and fear of accusations of discrimination, pre election insanity, ect.. If there is a ban, I believe it will not happen till November 5. I love the CDC director's quote "but warned that a travel ban could make it harder to get medical care and aid workers to regions dealing with the outbreak" .I thought we were sending in the military? Also there are such things as chartered private flights. Why can't aid efforts be coordinated and several flights chartered? http://idrisbello.com/2014/10/13/navarro-college-stop-ebola-stop-discrimination/ "While I had had some embarrassing moments myself based on people’s ignorance about Ebola , this was the first time that I was hearing that a university, which is supposed to be more objective was making a decision to ban all students from multiple countries based on apparent fear. This was even more ironic given that the students in this case were from Nigeria which had been declared Ebola-free (for now) and was a distance of 6525 miles away, yet Navarro College is located only 31 miles away from Dallas , Texas, which has an active Ebola case. ======================================================= http://www.persecondnews.com/index.php/psn-news/item/1851-ebola-outbreak-stop-the-discrimination-against-nigerians-jonathan Noting that there was no justification for such stigmatization of Nigerians since the Ebola Virus Disease had been effectively contained in the country and never attained epidemic levels, the President called for the cessation of discriminatory actions against Nigerians over the virus and urged the UN Secretary General, Mr. Ban Ki Moon to support the call. ========================================================= http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/219786-cdc-director-travel-ban-could-make-ebola-outbreak-worse Frieden said the CDC would consider any and all precautions, but warned that a travel ban could make it harder to get medical care and aid workers to regions dealing with the outbreak. He cited the recent delay African Union aid workers experienced trying to get to Liberia. "Their ability to get there was delayed by about a week because their flight was canceled and they were stuck in a neighboring country," he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingoloid Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 American airlines have not been flying to the countries affected by endemic Ebola for months. Duncan flew to Dallas from Belgium. We could place tighter medical restrictions on visas, but as a practical matter, what is a travel ban really going to do? Are we going to hire private investigators to make sure everybody told the truth about whether or not they took a side trip to West Africa while they were out of the country? Those first two articles are about Nigeria, which had a handful of cases caused by an American citizen coming from Liberia. (8 deaths there out of a population of 173,000,000, and half of those who died were medical staff treating the first patient.) It's been well over a month since any new cases were identified, so they appear to have beat it. Nigeria is a sizable economy that we do billions of dollars of business with. Restricting travel to and from Nigeria over such a tiny outbreak would be an insane reaction, almost as silly as Japan or the United Kingdom shutting down travel to the United States over our outbreak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sengui Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 I thought it was about time to take a look at Ebola from a more global perspective. Here are a few key result for those that may find them interesting................. Meanwhile....in Russia.....(I find it interesting that Putin has taken a leadership position in this with the WHO) http://english.pravda.ru/russia/economics/13-10-2014/128791-russia_ebola-0/ "We've always said that there is a possibility for the virus to cross the Russian border. But I am sure that only individual cases are possible, or hospital-acquired infections, but not more than that. In Russia, we have a system for ensuring biological security of the state, but sporadic cases are possible. All epidemic consequences will be nipped in the bud." .......................................... ....................The scientist also pointed out the potential efficacy of the drug known as Triazavirin. The drug was created by scientists of the Institute of Organic Synthesis of the Ural Branch of the Russian Academy of Sciences in cooperation with specialists Influenza Research Institute of Ministry of Health of the Russian Federation. "The developers have not tested it against the Ebola virus, but it works very actively against a whole range of influenza viruses," said Chereshnev. Triazavirin has not been tested against Ebola due to extremely rare cases of the disease. Previously, Triazavirin showed successful action against 15 types of flu, including virus A/H1N1 (swine flu) and H5N1 (bird flu), at any stage of the disease." "Meanwhile, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that Russia and the European countries were studying the issue of the use of special aviation of the Russian Federation to fight Ebola. "Now experts are exploring the possibility of joint work," Putin said at a meeting with the Director General of the World Health Organization Margaret Chan." =================================================================================== Meanwhile in Japan.................... they have a 30 minute test no one seems to want. http://www.ibtimes.com/ebola-outbreak-japan-develops-30-minute-simpler-test-quickly-diagnose-deadly-virus-1675502 Japanese scientists said Tuesday that they have developed a new test that could detect the Ebola virus in 30 minutes, with the help of a technology they claim is faster and cheaper than the current method being used in West Africa. More than 1,550 people have so far died from the current Ebola outbreak and over 3,000 have been infected. Eiken Chemical Co., along with researchers at Nagasaki University, reportedly created the new testing method, which can be conducted with a “small, battery-powered warmer,” making it ideal for use in places without an adequate power source, the scientists claimed. The current test requires “dedicated equipment and a stable supply of electricity,” according to a local report. "The new method is simpler than the current one and can be used in countries where expensive testing equipment is not available," Jiro Yasuda, a professor at Nagasaki University, told Agence France-Presse, or AFP. "We have yet to receive any questions or requests, but we are pleased to offer the system, which is ready to go," he reportedly said. ===================================================== Meanwhile in India ...................................................... http://www.ibtimes.com/ebola-outbreak-india-monitoring-possible-new-ebola-victim-japan-1699968 "A Japanese tourist visiting India is reportedly suspected to have contracted the Ebola virus that is wreaking havoc across West Africa and causing scares from Dallas to France. Kawakubo Yuko, 27, was visiting Imphal, the capital of the Indian state of Manipur, after touring five other countries and arriving from Myanmar, The Hindu, an English-language daily Indian newspaper" ====================================================== Meanwhile in China............................... (Reuters) - A Chinese drugmaker with close military ties is seeking fast-track approval for a drug that it says can cure Ebola, as China joins the race to help treat a deadly outbreak of a disease that has spread from Africa to the United States and Europe. Sihuan Pharmaceutical Holdings Group Ltd has signed a tie-up with Chinese research Academy of Military Medical Sciences (AMMS) last week to help push the drug called JK-05 through the approval process in China and bring it to market. The drug, developed by the academy, is currently approved for emergency military use only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bored or curious Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 relatively off topic, but anyone who gets a flu shot deserves a full on paranoid sissy label Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bored or curious Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 however i do love the "non panic" offensive-defensive tactic the "protector" people say, basically stating that you cant get it unless some african pees in your mouth or scats in your eye. thanks for the false sense of security. when said infected person wipes the rear end after #2, good chance even some gets on the hand. most folks just quickly run the hands under COLD water after #2, which i guarantee you does not remove all particles. so, they harp on how incredibly contagious this disease is, well, its in that little bit ie resiDOODOO on your hand. you touch the handle on the sink at that mcdonalds with that hand, and every other person that day does too. half of those people will pick their nose, touch their eye, put it in their mouth, and wow direct access and infection! cant wait! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Devils Advocate Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 relatively off topic, but anyone who gets a flu shot deserves a full on paranoid sissy label My pharmacist asked me the other day if I had my flue shot yet and I told him I don't do flu shots. He looked at me like I had 3 heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binghamtonian Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 American airlines have not been flying to the countries affected by endemic Ebola for months. Duncan flew to Dallas from Belgium. We could place tighter medical restrictions on visas, but as a practical matter, what is a travel ban really going to do? Are we going to hire private investigators to make sure everybody told the truth about whether or not they took a side trip to West Africa while they were out of the country? Those first two articles are about Nigeria, which had a handful of cases caused by an American citizen coming from Liberia. (8 deaths there out of a population of 173,000,000, and half of those who died were medical staff treating the first patient.) It's been well over a month since any new cases were identified, so they appear to have beat it. Nigeria is a sizable economy that we do billions of dollars of business with. Restricting travel to and from Nigeria over such a tiny outbreak would be an insane reaction, almost as silly as Japan or the United Kingdom shutting down travel to the United States over our outbreak. Please, stop being reasonable. You would never make it on one of these news channels hell bent of driving everyone into a state of paranoia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sengui Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 My pharmacist asked me the other day if I had my flue shot yet and I told him I don't do flu shots. He looked at me like I had 3 heads. I had worked at one time in very close to the public. I had gotten flu shots about half the time, got sick every season. When I had not gotten shots, got sick every season. Much of the public mix was from Northern S. America up to the Mexican border, many from the North East US. Given my unique situation, in my opinion made my immune system stronger by "exercising" it and developing new antibodies. I do not know this with any degree of certainty, but years after moving on from there I have had an occasional 1-3 days of mild symptoms of something, withno fever. Again my opinion, if you are between18 to 50 and in good health and can tolerate colds-flu, one may be better off when older because of acquired immunities immunities. At least for me, that is how the risk benefit worked out . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingoloid Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Now this seems really stupid:http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/us/ebola-infected-dallas-health-worker-was-on-flight.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=HpSum&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0"The second health care worker who tested positive for the Ebola virus took an airline flight from Cleveland to the Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport the day before she reported symptoms of the disease, federal health officials said Wednesday." Uh, maybe if you've been fondling an Ebola corpse and are being actively monitored since it's known you might get sick at any moment, maybe your trip to Cleveland needs to be put on hold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginger Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Well I just read/heard about the second nurse who cared for Mr Duncan coming down with Ebola. I read the nurses taped their own neck openings and I'm guessing they were smart enough to tape their own wrist cuffs but according the another report I read , they had no foot protection, meaning they were probably tracking germs-I wouldn't call spritzing your footwear in bleach 'best practice" for containing a deadly disease. I also read the nurses were complaining the gowns were somewhat semipermeable. As above, Bing-CDC needed to lock down staff caring for these individuals when they knew their protocols were in jeopardy. They need to stop thinking in terms of contagion and start thinking in terms of EXPOSURE. There is no other way to contain it, lock it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginger Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 ^ As I stated in my very first post regarding this topic...Welcome to Hotel DeHospitality-you get to stay here until we're sure you are ok. Not sure how they do things in Texas but in NYS, that should all come under workmans comp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingoloid Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 As above, Bing-CDC needed to lock down staff caring for these individuals when they knew their protocols were in jeopardy. They need to stop thinking in terms of contagion and start thinking in terms of EXPOSURE. There is no other way to contain it, lock it down. I can understand why they would be hesitant to set a standard of isolating everyone who has to treat the patient. That's a pretty extreme hardship that, *IF* they're following proper procedures and using the proper equipment in the hospital (which they apparently weren't), shouldn't be necessary. I'm completely stunned that they would let someone fly to Cleveland, where they could conceivably be sealed in a metal tube with dozens of other people for an hour or more while they become contagious then enter an airport. Stay home, don't go out except for the essentials and check your temperature before you do, and stay within a reasonable distance of the hospital. Jesus. This shouldn't be hard. That story just seems pants-on-head stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Devils Advocate Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Meanwhile - back in the U.S. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingoloid Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Well I just read/heard about the second nurse who cared for Mr Duncan coming down with Ebola. I read the nurses taped their own neck openings and I'm guessing they were smart enough to tape their own wrist cuffs but according the another report I read , they had no foot protection, meaning they were probably tracking germs-I wouldn't call spritzing your footwear in bleach 'best practice" for containing a deadly disease. I also read the nurses were complaining the gowns were somewhat semipermeable. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/dallas-nurses-hospital-sloppy-ebola-protocols-union/story?id=26205956 Reading all of that now. Wow, what a cluster**** they had going there. "Additionally, Duncan’s lab specimens were sent through the hospital’s tube system, potentially contaminating the system, the nurses said." Why didn't they just have a friggin' dance party for Duncan and the entire nursing staff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginger Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Bingo...They didn't state how she got to Cleveland, just that she flew back to Texas FROM Cleveland. And I'm sorry, but Yes, if the CDCis serious about stopping this in its tracks, those nurses and doctors needed to be locked down for 3 weeks minimum. The staff knew what they were doing wasn't enough. Furthermore, I just heard Rush state the BBC isn't allowing anyone with Ebola symptoms into the country and I am saying, that's not good enough. If you are exposed to Ebola you don't get to travel for three weeks-sorry. DA!^-I just said, the nurses knew what they were doing to protect themselves wasn't enough and for what ever reason at the time-expediency to help their patient most likely, IGNORED THEIR OWN COMMON SENSE. That has nothing to do with money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginger Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 BTW bing, if you notice, the girls who volunteered to care for this patient don't have children or family members to care for. If they had set this policy(3 week wait) I bet those same brave nurses would have still volunteered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Devils Advocate Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 DA!^-I just said, the nurses knew what they were doing to protect themselves wasn't enough and for what ever reason at the time-expediency to help their patient most likely, IGNORED THEIR OWN COMMON SENSE. That has nothing to do with money. I wasn't posting in regards to the nurses, just that the funding cuts at the CDC is perhaps making this situation worse than it could have been. http://www.cdc.gov/fmo/topic/budget%20information/appropriations_budget_form_pdf/Sequester_Impacts.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sengui Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Funding decrease-increase arguments are almost impossible to unravel due to how money is accounted for. There are in budget funds, off budget funds, inflation corrections etc.. Governmental accounting is more magic than reality. There has been enough funding for useless studies for decades, but not enough for a cohesive plan to contain an epidemic? Regardless of D or R, the CDC was aware of Ebola and its potential to spread since 1994 spanning several changes of power both in congress and the presidency. Ebola's first large scale emergence was in 1976 but was largely ignored outside of Africa. History is not going to fix well deserved mistrust the American public has of the CDC and government in general. The best thing that could be done to slow the spread of panic is for the CDC to take the hit, announce past errors then implement meaningful, aggressive effective measures to protect US citizens. Most importantly, stop treating the public like a bunch of illiterate dumb asses that is incapable of knowing when they a fed a line of bullshit. Here is a bit more information to consider on insane election year politics of funding. Washington is more concerned with elections, not the welfare of its constituency. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/10/15/the-absurd-claim-that-only-republicans-are-to-blame-for-cuts-to-ebola-research/ http://online.wsj.com/articles/the-ebola-democrats-1412810709 This one surprised me: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/cms-fda-budget-winners-cdc-nih-take-hit-89902.html "The administration cut some of CDC’s money for immunizations, preparedness and response work, cancer screening and chronic disease prevention. The agency said some of the funding for preventive health will be replaced with other money in the health reform law." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sengui Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 The insanity continues: http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2014/10/presbyterian-workers-wore-no-protective-gear-for-two-days-while-treating-ebola-patient.html/ "Health care workers treating Thomas Eric Duncan in a hospital isolation unit didn’t wear protective hazardous-material suits for two days until tests confirmed the Liberian man had Ebola — a delay that potentially exposed perhaps dozens of hospital workers to the virus, according to medical records. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/10/15/nurses-union-ebola-patient-left-in-open-area-of-er-for-hours/ The CDC has said some breach of protocol probably sickened Pham, but National Nurses United contends the protocols were either non-existent or changed constantly after Duncan arrived in the emergency room by ambulance on Sept. 28. ...................The nurses allege that his lab samples were allowed to travel through the hospital’s pneumatic tubes, possibly risking contaminating of the specimen-delivery system. They also said that hazardous waste was allowed to pile up to the ceiling. ............. nurses treating Duncan were also caring for other patients in the hospital and that, in the face of constantly shifting guidelines, they were allowed to follow whichever ones they chose. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/dallas-hospital-learned-its-ebolo-protocols-while-struggling-to-save-mortally-ill-patient/2014/10/14/32ff2414-53cf-11e4-892e-602188e70e9c_story.html The hospital that treated Ebola victim Thomas Eric Duncan had to learn on the fly how to control the deadly virus, adding new layers of protective gear for workers in what became a losing battle to keep the contagion from spreading, a top official with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Tuesday. “They kept adding more protective equipment as the patient [Duncan] deteriorated. They had masks first, then face shields, then the positive-pressure respirator. They added a second pair of gloves,” said Pierre Rollin, a CDC epidemiologist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wanker Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 , if the CDCis serious about stopping this in its tracks, those nurses and doctors needed to be locked down for 3 weeks minimum. I heard from Dr. Gupta an hour ago that CDC policy is no travel after caring for Ebola patients. Nurse #2 supposedly knew this and called from Cleveland before getting on the plane back to Dallas (she had an elevated temp.) and was told it was ok to fly back. It isn't enough that it's CDC recommended or policy for infectious care staff not to travel for a designated time. It has to be every hospital's policy. It has to be mandated either by every state or JAAHCO.....or someone. Every administration of every damn hospital in the nation should be in conference rooms right now, at 7:40 on a Wed. night, figuring out their training schedule for Ebola care staff and ordering their PPE. Not tomorrow, not next week. Now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wanker Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 I also heard Dr. Gupta say that the CDC just revised the info on their website regarding body temperature thresholds for Ebola patient candidates. They downgraded it from 101.5 to 104 something because Dallas nurse #2 apparently started manifesting symptoms at the lower temperature. This changes everything. Either we know way less that we thought we did about Ebola or it’s morphing way faster than we have the capability to keep up with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sengui Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 "This changes everything. Either we know way less that we thought we did about Ebola or it’s morphing way faster than we have the capability to keep up with it." It is only common sense, a greater number of viral replications will cause a greater number of mutations and variants. The spread of a disease is exponential unless interrupted by either a natural or man made condition. A disease cannot be stopped with PR. Ebola is not a political enemy or a bunch of human sheep, it just kills whoever it touches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginger Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 ^Again, I stated this in the first Ebola thread, every ones baseline temp and thermometer is different. My baseline is 97.6 F. I'm cold all of the time. An elevation to me is 99.6F. Try convincing a doctor of that though. This is a perfect example of where nurses/medical staff should be reminded and directed to think in terms of TREATING PATIENTS AS UNIQUE INDIVIDUALS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wanker Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 It is only common sense, a greater number of viral replications will cause a greater number of mutations and variants. The spread of a disease is exponential unless interrupted by either a natural or man made condition. I like that you kept it simple here. Very good points, dude. I would just say that the spread of a disease CAN BE exponential. Not all diseases go bat crap crazy on us. The big SARS scares of the last few years is one example. I’ve been saying that the world is overdue for another major, catastrophic flu epidemic, like the one of 1917-18. Rethinking it: sanitary conditions are much improved over most of the world from those in 1917. Plus, as a whole, humans know much more about how to avoid the flu and how to keep from spreading it than people did 100 years ago. There is a point, in nuclear parlance, where things prone to exponential growth get to critical mass stage. At that point, there is no force that can stop growth. That must have happened with the flu outbreaks, smallpox in Europe, the Black Plague in Europe (more than once) and could happen with Ebola. With a disease like Ebola, however, a LOT of people would have to be infected before it would reach that point. It’s just not that easy to contract, not like the common cold or the flu. It would have to completely overrun our capacity to deal with it in hospitals and homes, and then take another month before it started explosive growth. So far, this is contained to one hospital in the U.S. No one at Emory got contaminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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