Pope baptizes prominent Italian Muslim

[A Faithful Catholic]

How long do you think it will take those "radical Muslims" to go crazy in retaliation? Will they issue a fatwa on the convert like they did to Salman Rushdie for writing his book, "The Satanic Verses?" Will they go nuts like they did with those cartoons? After all, Bin Laden has accused the pope of engaging in another Crusade. I say to Bin Laden: Stop giving the world a reason too.

 

Pope baptizes prominent Italian Muslim

 

By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press WriterSat Mar 22, 7:59 PM ET

 

Italy's most prominent Muslim, an iconoclastic writer who condemned Islamic extremism and defended Israel, converted to Catholicism Saturday in a baptism by the pope at a Vatican Easter service.

 

An Egyptian-born, non-practicing Muslim who is married to a Catholic, Magdi Allam infuriated some Muslims with his books and columns in the newspaper Corriere della Sera newspaper, where he is a deputy editor. He titled one book "Long Live Israel."

 

As a choir sang, Pope Benedict XVI poured holy water over Allam's head and said a brief prayer in Latin.

 

"We no longer stand alongside or in opposition to one another," Benedict said in a homily reflecting on the meaning of baptism. "Thus faith is a force for peace and reconciliation in the world: distances between people are overcome, in the Lord we have become close."

 

Vatican Television zoomed in on Allam, who sat in the front row of the basilica along with six other candidates for baptism. He later received his first Communion.

 

Allam, 55, told the newspaper Il Giornale in a December interview that his criticism of Palestinian suicide bombing provoked threats on his life in 2003, prompting the Italian government to provide him with a sizable security detail.

 

The Union of Islamic Communities in Italy — which Allam has frequently criticized as having links to Hamas — said the baptism was his own decision.

 

"He is an adult, free to make his personal choice," the Apcom news agency quoted the group's spokesman, Issedin El Zir, as saying.

 

Yahya Pallavicini, vice president of Coreis, the Islamic religious community in Italy, said he respected Allam's choice but said he was "perplexed" by the symbolic and high-profile way in which he chose to convert.

 

"If Allam truly was compelled by a strong spiritual inspiration, perhaps it would have been better to do it delicately, maybe with a priest from Viterbo where he lives," the ANSA news agency quoted Pallavicini as saying.

 

The nighttime Easter vigil service at St. Peter's Basilica marked the period between Good Friday, which commemorates Jesus' crucifixion, and Easter Sunday, which marks his resurrection.

 

Benedict opened by blessing a white candle, which he then carried down the main aisle of the darkened basilica. Slowly, the pews began to light up as his flame was shared with candles carried by the faithful, until the whole basilica twinkled and the main lights came on.

 

The pope administers baptism "without making any 'difference of people,' that is, considering all equally important before the love of God and welcoming all in the community of the Church," said the Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi.

 

Allam, who has a young son with his Catholic wife and two adult children from a previous relationship, indicated in the Il Giornale interview that he would have no problem converting to Christianity. He said he had even received Communion once — when he was 13 or 14 — "even though I knew it was an act of blasphemy, not having been baptized."

 

He did not speak to the press Saturday and his newspaper said it had no information about his conversion.

 

Allam said in the interview that he had made a pilgrimage to Mecca, as is required of all Muslims, with his deeply religious mother in 1991, although he was not otherwise observant.

 

"I was never practicing," he was quoted as saying. "I never prayed five times a day, facing Mecca. I never fasted during Ramadan."

 

Allam also explained his decision to title a recent book "Viva Israele" by saying he wrote it after he received death threats from Hamas.

 

"Having been condemned to death, I have reflected a long time on the value of life. And I discovered that behind the origin of the ideology of hatred, violence and death is the discrimination against Israel. Everyone has the right to exist except for the Jewish state and its inhabitants," he said. "Today, Israel is the paradigm of the right to life."

 

In 2006, Allam was a co-winner, with three other journalists, of the $1 million Dan David prize, named for an Israeli entrepreneur. Allam was cited for "his ceaseless work in fostering understanding and tolerance between cultures."

 

There is no overarching Muslim law on conversion. But under a widespread interpretation of Islamic legal doctrine, converting from Islam is apostasy and punishable by death — though killings are rare.

 

Egypt's highest Islamic cleric, the Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa, wrote last year against the killing of apostates, saying there is no worldly retribution for Muslims who abandon their religion and that punishment would come in the afterlife.

 

On Wednesday, a new audio message from Osama bin Laden accused the pope of playing a "large and lengthy role" in a "new Crusade" against Islam that included the publication of drawings of the Prophet Muhammad that many Muslims found insulting.

 

Lombardi said Thursday that bin Laden's accusation was baseless. He said Benedict repeatedly criticized the Muhammad cartoons, first published in some European newspapers in 2006 and republished by Danish papers in February.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080322/ap_on_...RIwnHn8X2pbbBAF

[Guest Guest]

How tremendously boring.

 

 

@

[Guest The Light]

AFC was involved in controversy with JON. So he laid low for a couple of weeks and now has posted something non-controversial in an attempt to make everyone forget that he recently stretched the truth!

[A Faithful Catholic]

AFC was involved in controversy with JON. So he laid low for a couple of weeks and now has posted something non-controversial in an attempt to make everyone forget that he recently stretched the truth!

 

1.) Never lied or stretched the truth. NEVER.

2.) I was BANNED for no reason at all. No reason was given when I sent an email. I was simply banned because of anti-Catholic hatred. Not surprised.

3.) I have NO PROBLEM being controversial.

4.) Don't need to lay low. You ought to know that by now.

[Guest Guest]

1.) Never lied or stretched the truth. NEVER.

2.) I was BANNED for no reason at all. No reason was given when I sent an email. I was simply banned because of anti-Catholic hatred. Not surprised.

3.) I have NO PROBLEM being controversial.

4.) Don't need to lay low. You ought to know that by now.

 

 

You also have no problem being extraordinarily boring. Your petty quabbling about religious dogma is "stick a fork in my neck" boring and pedestrian.

 

I guess if you spend your life focusing on all the tiny little details of some religion that was and is still rife with corruption, you never have to take a good look at the big picture of life.

 

I watched a History Channel show last night on the Reformation and Martin Luther. I didn't know that Popes had orgies and fathered mulitiple children with several women back then. No wonder people revolted against the church. They got tired of the charade, hypocrisy and the corruption.

[A Faithful Catholic]

You also have no problem being extraordinarily boring.

 

and you also don't have a problem clicking on my threads.

 

Your petty quabbling about religious dogma is "stick a fork in my neck" boring and pedestrian.

 

Petty? False teachings send people to hell.

 

I guess if you spend your life focusing on all the tiny little details of some religion that was and is still rife with corruption, you never have to take a good look at the big picture of life.

 

Every human organization has corruption in it. Every branch of any religion does as well...The teachings and dogmas are PERFECT AND CORRECT in the CC. Look at all the nonsense in the heretical churches: Abortion and homosexual acts are permitted and condoned. Horrible, SATANIC CRIMES, against GOD HIMSELF.

 

I watched a History Channel show last night on the Reformation and Martin Luther. I didn't know that Popes had orgies and fathered mulitiple children with several women back then. No wonder people revolted against the church. They got tired of the charade, hypocrisy and the corruption.

 

Look at the AWFUL mess that sprung from that heresy: 20,000+ different fractures, all teaching conflicting doctrine. Real nice. Exactly what God wanted.

 

It is people like you who have very little understanding of the Lord's Church. Catholics are not Catholic because of the sinners in the Church or the clergy. The clergy are sinners and are subjected to satan's temptations just like anyone else. They do sin. It is because of the DOCTRINES AND DOGMAS professed by the Church that makes a Catholic a TRUE CATHOLIC.

I will never leave the Church because of a sinner's sins. Nope. Never. I am WAY SMARTER than that.

 

 

@

[Jon]

Pope baptizes prominent Italian Muslim

Seems pretty insignificant from a religious standpoint.

 

After all, the guy was reportedly a 'Muslim' in little more than name only anyway. He is married to a Catholic wife, and it is highly likely that his love for her means more to him than his love for anything else. His 'conversion' is probably more an expression of affectionate devotion to his spouse, and a pragmatic investment in Peace and Quiet on the Home Front for the sake of that affection.

 

So "The Tender Trap" claims a new 'Catholic'.

[Jon]

Look at the AWFUL mess that sprung from that heresy: 20,000+ different fractures, all teaching conflicting doctrine. Real nice. Exactly what God wanted.

A Faithful Catholic, for a few months now you have led us all on a merry little dance regarding Protestant Denominations numbering "20,000-plus".

 

I never 'bought' your claim from the outset, and expressed reservations (highlighted below) about it, even while acknowledging existence of a number of Protestant Denominations.

 

 

Sooner or later information was bound to surface confirming the "Baghdad Bob" absurdity of your claim.

 

 

It seems that I was right to reserve judgment.

 

Anti-Sola Scriptura Arguments Refuted:

 

*Sourced from: David A. Barrett's huge two volume, "World Christian Encyclopedia", the 2001 AD edition. In case you haven't heard of this work, it is the world standard for religious statistics. http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-fastest-growing.htm

 

FALSE CLAIM: "David A. Barrett's book, World Christian Encyclopedia, says that there are 30,000 denominations that use sola Scriptura. Obviously using the Bible only doesn't work, we need tradition, since there is only one Catholic church!"

 

TRUTH: Any Traditionalist who misuses David Barrett's data in this way is either dishonest or ignorant. Barrett's data leads us to conclude that there are in fact 30 Roman Catholic denominations and 41 different Orthodox denominations and only 27 "Protestant" denominations and 185 "Independent" denominations. Obviously then, using tradition is not the answer. Further, very few churches in the world actually use sola Scriptura!

 

 

http://www.bible.ca/sola-scriptura-anti-refuted-division.htm

 

This is one of several tables cited on that page showing the comparative number of Catholic Denominations and Protestant Denominations.

 

Have I 'Cherry-picked'? Of course! Doesn't A Faithful Catholic? There are other tables on the same web page that look arguably less damning for the Catholic Church.

 

BUT throughout all but one of those tables there is one figure that holds firmest ... 27 Protestant denominations. (The only table that deviates puts so-called 'Protestant Denominations' at some 8,000+ ... still a far cry from 20,000). However like all the tables that one too needs to be read in conjunction with adjoining text clarifying it.

 

What the Heck ... read the whole page like I did!

 

(Don't tell me, let me guess: A Faithful Catholic will claim that this source is elaborately 'discredited' just like he claimed about Fr. Richard McBrien, the Catholic historian and theologian at the University of Notre Dame, who wrote Lives of the Popes. According to A Faithful Catholic, any writing that does not gush with mindless praise of the Catholic Church is written by "heretics" or "fallen Catholic Scholars", or on "trashy" Protestant websites. No doubt he'll announce that the U.S. bishops' Committee on Doctrine is seeking to bar David A. Barrett's "World Christian Encyclopedia" too!

He'll proclaim that Barrett is obviously "highly suspect in his writings", and he'll add: "Thanks for giving me the warning. I will never read his books". A Faithful Catholic previously went through that exact pantomime template in the "Purgatory" thread, page 16, Thu Jan 03, 2008).

 

I invite anyone reading this to examine the cited web page for themselves and draw their own conclusions (not a state of mind the Catholic Church readily encourages). I think it will emerge that the Catholic Church comes out of the analysis not 'ahead' but decisively 'behind' in flaws of 'Fragmentation'.

 

I KNOW that A Faithful Catholic will rush in to say that the Orthodox Church has 'seen the light' and has aligned itself with the Catholic Church more recently than the statistical survey cited. But that merely serves to consolidate an assertion already made in that survey affiliating the Catholic and Orthodox churches anyway, adding further weight to the statistics.

 

For some time I have 'sat' on this data. It has been entertaining to observe how long and how stridently A Faithful Catholic would prance along with this charade.

[A Faithful Catholic]

A Faithful Catholic, for a few months now you have led us all on a merry little dance regarding Protestant Denominations numbering 20,000-plus.

 

Oh, there is. I'm being CONSERVATIVE.

 

*Sourced from: David A. Barrett's huge two volume, "World Christian Encyclopedia", the 2001 AD edition. In case you haven't heard of this work, it is the world standard for religious statistics. http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-fastest-growing.htm

 

What does Islam have to do with Christianity?

 

FALSE CLAIM: "David A. Barrett's book, World Christian Encyclopedia, says that there are 30,000 denominations that use sola Scriptura. Obviously using the Bible only doesn't work, we need tradition, since there is only one Catholic church!"

 

Um, who said, that I said, all protestants use sola scriptura? I never said that at all. Sacred Tradition also contains the Word of God because the bible is a result of Tradition. :lol:

TRUTH: Any Traditionalist who misuses David Barrett's data in this way is either dishonest or ignorant. Barrett's data leads us to conclude that there are in fact 30 Roman Catholic denominations and 41 different Orthodox denominations and only 27 "Protestant" denominations and 185 "Independent" denominations. Obviously then, using tradition is not the answer. Further, very few churches in the world actually use sola Scriptura!

 

This is the CRUX of it all. This guy who wrote this is CLUELESS:

 

1.) There are 33 RITES of the Catholic Church ALL in agreement in terms of the Sacraments and under the leadership of the POPE. The only difference is in the way the liturgy is celebrated. EVERYTHING else is the same. They all believe in the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH in terms of the explanation of beliefs. This CANNOT be said for the protestants who don't agree on anything except that the CC is WRONG and Jesus was SOME TYPE of Saviour. This is the ONLY thing that makes protestants somehow "united" They are all different churches, teaching different doctrines that conflict with each other, and all with different leadership structures. These are the facts........

 

2.) A Church cannot consider itself Catholic in terms of the Church set up on Peter and be called "independent." The HALLMARK of Catholicism is UNITY OF BELIEFS and AUTHORITY. These independent "CC's" are Catholic in name only.

 

3.) The Orthodox Church is unified in BELIEFS and are one. Most fall under the Patriarch of Constantinople or the Russian Patriarch. "Firsts among equals"

 

4.) If you are not Catholic, not Orthodox, you are PROTESTANT. There are only three branches of Christianity and those are it. The FIRST TWO are FAITHS and the Protestant is just a group label because there is no unity of beliefs nor Authority.

 

You are wrong and so is that guy. Nice job.

 

(Don't tell me, Let me guess: A Faithful Catholic will claim that this source is elaborately 'discredited' just like he claimed about Fr. Richard McBrien, ........

 

There are heretics in the CC and nonconformists. The Pope and certain powerful Bishops are turning up the heat on them.....GOOD.

I invite anyone reading this to examine the cited web page for themselves and draw their own conclusions (not a state of mind the Catholic Church readily encourages). I think it will emerge that the Catholic Church comes out of the analysis not 'ahead' but decisively 'behind' in flaws of 'Fragmentation'.

 

The CC enjoys the UNITY OF BELIEFS and LEADERSHIP. It is ONE.

 

I KNOW that A Faithful Catholic will rush in to say that the Orthodox Church has 'seen the light' and has aligned itself with the Catholic Church more recently than the statistical survey cited. But that only consolidates an assertion already made in the survey which affiliates the Catholic and Orthodox churches anyway, adding further weight to the statistics.

 

For some time I have 'sat' on this data. It has been entertaining to observe how long and how stridently A Faithful Catholic would prance along with this charade

 

To sum it all up:

 

There are THREE BRANCHES of Christianity:

 

1.) Catholic Faith

2.) Orthodox Faith

3.) Protestantism

 

Don't confuse the rites of the CC with the denominations of protestantism. Apples and Oranges.

 

-Rites of the Catholic Church are in ALL agreement in beliefs and hierarchy. Just different liturgical customs.....

 

-The denominations of protestantism are all different in beliefs and hierarchy. All different "churches"

 

Note: If you do not believe in all seven sacraments and the leadership of the Pope, you are NOT Catholic.

 

If there was no such thing as Sacred Tradition, Christianity wouldn't exist. :blink:

 

 

Jon, please get a clue.

[Jon]

What does Islam have to do with Christianity?

I was not saying that.

 

My only purpose was to verify in good faith the source of my statement. It was the same authority and the same publication. The credentials are not my concoction, they are a quote. Hence the link provided.

 

As for the rest of your 'spin', it is just that ... A Faithful Catholic spin.

 

Nice try. Please get a clue.

[A Faithful Catholic]

I was not saying that.

 

My only purpose was to verify in good faith the source of my statement. It was the same authority and the same publication. The credentials are not my concoction, they are a quote. Hence the link provided.

 

As for the rest of your 'spin', it is just that ... A Faithful Catholic spin.

 

Nice try. Please get a clue.

 

 

Translation: AFC is correct and certainly knows what a "fracture" vs. differing customs, are.

 

Protestant denoms are ALL DIFFERENT fractures based on differing beliefs and hierarchy.

 

 

Jon, you have no idea what you are talking about....

[Jon]

Um, who said, that I said, all protestants use sola scriptura? I never said that at all.

Did I say that you said every part of what I quoted? Or was I quoting an oft-made Catholic claim? Can you grasp that distinction?

 

Having said that, it is gratifying to note that my quote has now panicked an explicit disclaimer out of you FOR THE FIRST TIME! (contrary to what you claim, you never made that clear in the past)

 

Sacred Tradition also contains the Word of God because the bible is a result of Tradition. :lol:

Sophistry.

 

So when it suits you, the Word of God is just that ... "THE-WORD-OF-GOD". But when that DOESN'T suit you, then suddenly the Word Of God is "TRADITION" (by definition, customs handed down by Man). Make up your mind.

 

This is the CRUX of it all. This guy who wrote this is CLUELESS:

What did I predict from you?

 

 

 

[Guest Protestant]

AFC: Could you refer to Protestants as Protestants and not Heritics???

[Guest Guest]

So was this person baptized or was water just sprinkled on him?

[Jon]

Translation:(???) AFC is correct and certainly knows what a "fracture" vs. differing customs, are.

I don't need 'translating', thank you. Here again you are just confirming my earlier statement that you install your own 'spin'.

 

I write plainly and openly (see my signature).

 

Protestant denoms are ALL DIFFERENT fractures based on differing beliefs and hierarchy.

I wonder if your definition of so-called "DIFFERENT fractures based on differing beliefs" has anything whatsoever to do with the World of Reality.

 

Again, for your benefit:

 

 

Jon, you have no idea what you are talking about....

Handy throwaway line, I suppose. Bravado sure saves thinking.

 

 

@

[A Faithful Catholic]

Did I say that you said every part of what I quoted? Or was I quoting an oft-made Catholic claim? Can you grasp that distinction?

SOLA SCRIPTURA was the whole basis of Luther's revolt, besides the abuses that were corrected. SS is one of the 5 SOLAS, all heresies, that were born out of the "reformation", that were never followed/taught by the Apostles, nor Jesus. Not all protestants believe in SS. The Anglicans/Episcopals DO NOT for example. SS is a MAIN BELIEF of PROTESTANTISM, except the "English Accident"

 

Having said that, it is gratifying to note that my quote has now panicked an explicit disclaimer out of you FOR THE FIRST TIME! (contrary to what you claim, you never made that clear in the past)

 

?

 

So when it suits you, the Word of God is just that ... "THE-WORD-OF-GOD".

 

There are TWO parts to the Word of God:

 

The Written Word: Scriptures.

 

Oral Tradition: The very teachings handed down by the Apostles. EVERYTHING that the Apostles DID, SAID, and STARTED. These are on the same level as the written Word because the Apostles spoke for Christ, per His own will:

 

"Those who HEAR YOU, HEAR ME. Those that REJECT YOU, REJECT ME, and the One Who sent Me" Everything the Apostles did and started, which still exist today is the Word of God.

 

But when that DOESN'T suit you, then suddenly the Word Of God is "TRADITION" (by definition, customs handed down by Man). Make up your mind. dry.gif

 

You are CONFUSED. Look above. Sacred tradition and the Written Word BOTH make up the Word of God.

 

That the bible comes from Sacred Tradition and is the written Word of God. Most protestants reject Sacred Tradition- the very thing that gave them the scriptures. Go figure.

 

 

What did I predict from you?

 

You must have known it was baloney.

[A Faithful Catholic]

I wonder if your definition of so-called "DIFFERENT fractures based on differing beliefs" has anything whatsoever to do with the World of Reality.

 

Let's go down through some of the MAJOR differences:

 

Some accept Sola Scriptura, others reject it

 

Some accept Sacred Tradition, others reject it.

 

Some accept the reality of Apostolic Succession, others reject it.

 

Some believe in some form of the Real Presence, others reject it altogether.

 

Some believe in the sacramental priesthood, others reject it.

 

Some celebrate a liturgy, others reject it.

 

Some believe in the Holy Trinity, others reject it.

 

Some believe in the Sacrament of Confession, others reject it.

 

Some believe in the female priesthood/clergy others reject it.

 

Some believe in gay "marriages" and bless them, others reject it as a major sin.

 

Some believe in abortion, others reject it.

 

 

Jon do you seriously believe these are trivial realities? Some of these, that go unforgiven, can send you to hell.. Trivial? Not a chance......

[A Faithful Catholic]

AFC: Could you refer to Protestants as Protestants and not Heritics???

 

 

Sorry, I don't use the word "Heritics" I use the word heretics which is the CORRECT, by definition, of those that went astray from the original Faith in the 1500s.

 

 

@

[A Faithful Catholic]

So was this person baptized or was water just sprinkled on him?

 

 

It doesn't matter. The Apostles stated it would still be correct:

 

Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

 

The Didache. The Lord's Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations.

[Jon]

AFC: Could you refer to Protestants as Protestants and not Heritics???

Thank you Protestant ... I've been meaning to return to that theme.

 

A little recourse to Analogy, if it please everyone:

 

In today's Western world what do we imagine would happen to anyone who were successfully LABELED a "Terrorist"? Wouldn't they become fair-game for targeting with any and all hostilities reserved for Terrorists? The end result could even be life-threatening to them.

 

Never mind whether the label was justified or not. All that is required for persecution is that enough zealots become convinced of its validity.

 

Now, let's go back to earlier history: "Heretics" were by definition those persons who were burned at stakes, publicly disemboweled, dismembered, lengthened on racks, raided and their belongings ransacked and confiscated, their homes burned down and whatever else. That was the assigned role of a so-called "Heretic".

 

Why does it not happen today?

 

I suggest that such practice has fallen out of Legal favor and community fashion is all. Given the right mix of circumstances and opportunity, that which has fallen out of fashion can just as easily fall back into fashion. Such is the fickleness of society.

 

THEREFORE:

 

By scampering about labeling selected members of the community as "Heretics" today, the labelers are tacitly expressing the same discriminatory sentiment that condemned those so labeled to horrific treatment in the past.

 

Symbolically, calling someone a "Heretic" is the equivalent of pinning a "Kick Me" notice on their back, and with the same malice.

 

If this were 1520, then should I and others view serenely the sight of A Faithful Catholic and like-minded believers gathering kindling?

 

To this day the label "Heretic" remains code for: "burn at stake, publicly disembowel, dismember, lengthen on rack, ransack and confiscate belongings, raid and burn down home and whatever else." Only modern Law restrains that ... for now. If those restraints were to somehow be lifted, does anyone seriously believe that similar tyranny would not rear its ugly head again, albeit more 'Hi-tech" perhaps?

 

So why should Protestants accept labels of any sort that declare "Open Season" on them?

 

 

A Faithful Catholic, be so kind as to cease pinning vile targets on fellow Christians!

 

 

 

 

 

[Jon]

Let's go down through some of the MAJOR differences:

 

Some accept Sola Scriptura, others reject it

 

Some accept Sacred Tradition, others reject it.

 

Some accept the reality of Apostolic Succession, others reject it.

 

Some believe in some form of the Real Presence, others reject it altogether.

 

Some believe in the sacramental priesthood, others reject it.

 

Some celebrate a liturgy, others reject it.

 

Some believe in the Holy Trinity, others reject it.

 

Some believe in the Sacrament of Confession, others reject it.

 

Some believe in the female priesthood/clergy others reject it.

 

Some believe in gay "marriages" and bless them, others reject it as a major sin.

 

Some believe in abortion, others reject it.

 

 

Jon do you seriously believe these are trivial realities? Some of these, that go unforgiven, can send you to hell.. Trivial? Not a chance......

Goodness! 11 "Major Differences"! That's not even the 27 acknowledged by Barrett! You must be slipping!

 

What about the disunities within the Catholic/Orthodox bloc?

 

(Sssshh! Quick! Sweep them under the rug! Not good for propaganda!)

[Guest Reality steppin' in...]

Christianity is little more than a fairy tale, not unlike the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus. The sad fact is that religion, in and of itself, isn't a bad thing. For example, I brush my teeth religiously, I take a shower religiously, I go to work religiously. However, to believe in something simply because you have "faith" that it exists doesn't make it so. So next time, crack open a "Mother Goose" book instead of the bible. Chances are, you'll find no difference at all.

 

PS: We don't need prayer in schools, we need education.

[Jon]

Sorry, I don't use the word "Heritics" I use the word heretics which is the CORRECT, by definition, of those that went astray from the original Faith in the 1500s.

Again we see A Faithful Catholic crowing over a mere typo. Truly triumph of the intellect.

[A Faithful Catholic]

Thank you Protestant ... I've been meaning to return to that theme.

 

A little recourse to Analogy, if it please everyone:

 

In today's Western world what do we imagine would happen to anyone who were successfully LABELED a "Terrorist"? Wouldn't they become fair-game for targeting with any and all hostilities reserved for Terrorists? The end result could even be life-threatening to them.

 

Never mind whether the label was justified or not. All that is required for persecution is that enough zealots become convinced of its validity.

 

Bad logic, Jon.

 

 

Now, let's go back to earlier history: "Heretics" were by definition those persons who were burned at stakes, publicly disemboweled, dismembered, lengthened on racks, raided and their belongings ransacked and confiscated, their homes burned down and whatever else. That was the assigned role of a so-called "Heretic".

 

Bad logic again:

 

heresy/heretic = "In Christianity, heresy is a "theological or religious opinion or doctrine maintained in opposition, or held to be contrary, to the Roman Catholic or Orthodox doctrine of the Christian Church."

 

Many moons ago, it was against CIVIL LAW to be a heretic and you could be punished for it by the GOVERNMENTS of the time. It was treated no different from treason. Heresies ERODED the moral fabric of society in those days.

 

Why does it not happen today?

 

I suggest that such practice has fallen out of Legal favor and community fashion is all. Given the right mix of circumstances and opportunity, that which has fallen out of fashion can just as easily fall back into fashion. Such is the fickleness of society.

 

Baloney. Our times are COMPLETELY different from their times, considering the laws, beliefs, morality. It was a whole different society.

 

THEREFORE:

 

By scampering about labeling selected members of the community as "Heretics" today, the labelers are tacitly expressing the same discriminatory sentiment that condemned those so labeled to horrific treatment in the past.

 

Symbolically, calling someone a "Heretic" is the equivalent of pinning a "Kick Me" notice on their back, and with the same malice.

 

If this were 1520, then should I and others view serenely the sight of A Faithful Catholic and like-minded believers gathering kindling?

 

To this day the label "Heretic" remains code for: "burn at stake, publicly disembowel, dismember, lengthen on rack, ransack and confiscate belongings, raid and burn down home and whatever else." Only modern Law restrains that ... for now. If those restraints were to somehow be lifted, does anyone seriously believe that similar tyranny would not rear its ugly head again, albeit more 'Hi-tech" perhaps?

 

So why should Protestants accept labels of any sort that declare "Open Season" on them?

 

A Faithful Catholic, be so kind as to cease pinning vile targets on fellow Christians!

 

Terrible, faulty logic. Look up the definition of a heretic:

 

heresy/heretic = "In Christianity, heresy is a "theological or religious opinion or doctrine maintained in opposition, or held to be contrary, to the Roman Catholic or Orthodox doctrine of the Christian Church."

 

Heresies are faulty beliefs, not reasons for a beat down.

 

Jon, that was on the verge of being childish.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[A Faithful Catholic]

Goodness! 11 "Major Differences"! That's not even the 27 acknowledged by Barrett! You must be slipping!

 

What about the disunity within the Catholic/Orthodox bloc?

 

(Sssshh! Quick! Sweep them under the rug! Not good for propaganda!)

 

 

Show me the disunity in the Catholic Church. Those that do not believe in all 7 sacraments and/or refuse to believe in the Authority of the Successor of Peter are NOT CATHOLIC.

 

Show me the disunity, please. There is only ONE CATECHISM of the Catholic Church.