Joba - Starter or Reliever?

[26TimeWorldChampions]

There isn't much MLB talk on here anymore, but this is good, debatable topic. Hank Steinbrenner seems to think Joba should be a starter. My question is who's going to fill his role? Farnsworth? Hawkins? It's bad enough Hank listened to the advise of Brian Cashman and didn't trade Hughes and Kennedy (neither can find the plate so far this year) for Johan Santana, but now he wants to take the best set-up man in baseball and screw things up.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Scooter]

There isn't much MLB talk on here anymore, but this is good, debatable topic. Hank Steinbrenner seems to think Joba should be a starter. My question is who's going to fill his role? Farnsworth? Hawkins? It's bad enough Hank listened to the advise of Brian Cashman and didn't trade Hughes and Kennedy (neither can find the plate so far this year) for Johan Santana, but now he wants to take the best set-up man in baseball and screw things up.

 

 

 

 

 

1996 - Rivera to Wetteland

1997 - Rivera becomes closer

2008 - Chamberlain to Rivera

2010 - Chamberlain becomes closer???

 

Not sure Joba could maintain that emotional intensity for 6-8 innings as hes just a kid. As a closer, the Yanks are set for another 10-15 years. Transition from his role to closer, 1-2 innings of work nightly, would be much easier than going to the beginning of the game when crowd isn't into it yet. He may come out flat. He may run out of emotional gas after 3-4 innings. Then what happens to him mentally and will he ever get his confidence back, or, is he a great young talent who loses it, never to be found again? Your thoughts 26?

 

 

[26TimeWorldChampions]

1996 - Rivera to Wetteland

1997 - Rivera becomes closer

2008 - Chamberlain to Rivera

2010 - Chamberlain becomes closer???

 

Not sure Joba could maintain that emotional intensity for 6-8 innings as hes just a kid. As a closer, the Yanks are set for another 10-15 years. Transition from his role to closer, 1-2 innings of work nightly, would be much easier than going to the beginning of the game when crowd isn't into it yet. He may come out flat. He may run out of emotional gas after 3-4 innings. Then what happens to him mentally and will he ever get his confidence back, or, is he a great young talent who loses it, never to be found again? Your thoughts 26?

You brought up some great points and I agree with everything you said. Joba may very well have what it takes to be a great starter, but he's much too valuable coming out of the bullpen simply because there isn't anybody else. The Red Sox wanted to make a starter out of Jonathan Papelbon last season too, but realized how important he was as a closer and they went on to win the World Series.

 

Much like his father, George, Hank Steinbrenner is already showing signs that his baseball smarts are questionable. It would be a foolish move to move Joba to a starting role this season. The Yankees bullpen is weak and has no other reliable arms besides Joba and Rivera. If Joba were to be moved to the starting rotation that would leave the main setup role in the hands of Kyle Farnsworth, Brian Bruney or LaTroy Hawkins, a recipe for disaster anyway you mix it.

 

The Yankees would have to acquire another arm for their bullpen, which might force them to trade one of their younger players, something they worked hard not to do this past off-season when they had a chance (and blew it big-time) to get Johan Santana

 

Putting Joba in the starting rotation also creates injury risks. The demands of a starting pitcher are much greater than that of an 8th inning reliever. After pitching only 112 innings last year, asking Joba to take on a full load of innings would be too much to handle

 

In the coming weeks and months, Yankee fans will begin to see who is really in control of the team. If Joba is inserted into the rotation then Hank is calling all of the shots. If Joba stays in the bullpen then Girardi and Cashman are still in control. Well, at least for now

[Guest Guest]

You brought up some great points and I agree with everything you said. Joba may very well have what it takes to be a great starter, but he's much too valuable coming out of the bullpen simply because there isn't anybody else. The Red Sox wanted to make a starter out of Jonathan Papelbon last season too, but realized how important he was as a closer and they went on to win the World Series.

 

Much like his father, George, Hank Steinbrenner is already showing signs that his baseball smarts are questionable. It would be a foolish move to move Joba to a starting role this season. The Yankees bullpen is weak and has no other reliable arms besides Joba and Rivera. If Joba were to be moved to the starting rotation that would leave the main setup role in the hands of Kyle Farnsworth, Brian Bruney or LaTroy Hawkins, a recipe for disaster anyway you mix it.

 

The Yankees would have to acquire another arm for their bullpen, which might force them to trade one of their younger players, something they worked hard not to do this past off-season when they had a chance (and blew it big-time) to get Johan Santana

 

Putting Joba in the starting rotation also creates injury risks. The demands of a starting pitcher are much greater than that of an 8th inning reliever. After pitching only 112 innings last year, asking Joba to take on a full load of innings would be too much to handle

 

In the coming weeks and months, Yankee fans will begin to see who is really in control of the team. If Joba is inserted into the rotation then Hank is calling all of the shots. If Joba stays in the bullpen then Girardi and Cashman are still in control. Well, at least for now

 

Hugehs and Kennedy were exactly what I felt they would be and while I think Hughes will be a decent 2 or 3 down the line, Kennedy is at best a five. Santana woulda made all the difference and we will regret that for years and Red Sox championships to come. As for Joba, I think he has to stay where he is and will eventually be the key that Papelbon is to the Sox.

 

 

[Guest Scooter]

You brought up some great points and I agree with everything you said. Joba may very well have what it takes to be a great starter, but he's much too valuable coming out of the bullpen simply because there isn't anybody else. The Red Sox wanted to make a starter out of Jonathan Papelbon last season too, but realized how important he was as a closer and they went on to win the World Series.

 

Much like his father, George, Hank Steinbrenner is already showing signs that his baseball smarts are questionable. It would be a foolish move to move Joba to a starting role this season. The Yankees bullpen is weak and has no other reliable arms besides Joba and Rivera. If Joba were to be moved to the starting rotation that would leave the main setup role in the hands of Kyle Farnsworth, Brian Bruney or LaTroy Hawkins, a recipe for disaster anyway you mix it.

 

The Yankees would have to acquire another arm for their bullpen, which might force them to trade one of their younger players, something they worked hard not to do this past off-season when they had a chance (and blew it big-time) to get Johan Santana

 

Putting Joba in the starting rotation also creates injury risks. The demands of a starting pitcher are much greater than that of an 8th inning reliever. After pitching only 112 innings last year, asking Joba to take on a full load of innings would be too much to handle

 

In the coming weeks and months, Yankee fans will begin to see who is really in control of the team. If Joba is inserted into the rotation then Hank is calling all of the shots. If Joba stays in the bullpen then Girardi and Cashman are still in control. Well, at least for now

 

If history repeates itself, we are in for a long slump. When King George was The Boss, he meddeled early on in his career and it was bad. Even when they were winning with Billy Martin, some free agents didn't want to come to the Yanks. As he got older and matured, the Cashmans, Torres, Stottlemeyers, Zimmers, etc. were allowed to make the calls. Everyone wanted to come to play in the Bronx. Now, if Prince Hank is gonna meddle, bad decisions will be made (Joba) and the Bronx may be a turnoff again for awhile. Lets hope not.

 

[Guest Baseball expert]

1996 - Rivera to Wetteland

1997 - Rivera becomes closer

2008 - Chamberlain to Rivera

2010 - Chamberlain becomes closer???

 

Not sure Joba could maintain that emotional intensity for 6-8 innings as hes just a kid. As a closer, the Yanks are set for another 10-15 years. Transition from his role to closer, 1-2 innings of work nightly, would be much easier than going to the beginning of the game when crowd isn't into it yet. He may come out flat. He may run out of emotional gas after 3-4 innings. Then what happens to him mentally and will he ever get his confidence back, or, is he a great young talent who loses it, never to be found again? Your thoughts 26?

 

 

I agree with Hank, Joba as a setup man is idiotic. Koufax, Gibson, Seaver, Johnson, Beckett, Schilling etc. were all starters and World Series heroes. They were not used in the 8th inning.

Joba hs the stuff to be a true numer 1. The Yanks don't have that. The closest they have is groundball pitcher Wang. The Yanks have not won since 2000. HELLO, this formula we have been using does not work. You can't make it past the playoff teams without an ace. I guarantee you that if you keep Joba in the bullpen this team will have NO CHANCE if they make the playoffs. Joba does the team no good if you are losing by the 8th inning. The Yanks will not win slugfests in the playoffs. They are going up against teams with good pitching. If you go into the playiffs Wang is the best we have but not as good as Becket or Sabathia. The aging Pettite is hit or miss. The other three starters you can forget about winning playoff games. Having Joba as a starter has other benifits. Joba has a good chance of going 7 innings as a starter which will save the bullpen from the 3 and 4 inning outings from the three yankee stiffs currently in the rotation.

I think Bruney can pitch the 8th inning. I like the chances of him trying to get three outs then hoping Hughes and kennedy can pitch 18 outs. (It is not going to happen)

[Guest Joe Lefebvre]

Here we go again ... It's only April and the boo-birds are out slamming the move to keep Hughes and Kennedy (and Melky) rather than trading them all for Santana.

 

IMO - It's way too early to call that one. It may even be too early at the end of the regular season.

 

Hughes and Kennedy will come around - have faith. Igawa & Rastner are tolling away in Triple A waiting for another shot @ the big time as well, so don't be surprised to see one or both of them get the call if Kennedy does not snap out of his funk ...

 

Hughes is not that far off his game. Look for a strong outing Thursday.

 

Mussina just needs to give a solid 6 innings every time out and pray the YANKS bring their bats that day.

 

 

 

 

[Guest Get it Right]

You brought up some great points and I agree with everything you said. Joba may very well have what it takes to be a great starter, but he's much too valuable coming out of the bullpen simply because there isn't anybody else. The Red Sox wanted to make a starter out of Jonathan Papelbon last season too, but realized how important he was as a closer and they went on to win the World Series.

 

Much like his father, George, Hank Steinbrenner is already showing signs that his baseball smarts are questionable. It would be a foolish move to move Joba to a starting role this season. The Yankees bullpen is weak and has no other reliable arms besides Joba and Rivera. If Joba were to be moved to the starting rotation that would leave the main setup role in the hands of Kyle Farnsworth, Brian Bruney or LaTroy Hawkins, a recipe for disaster anyway you mix it.

 

The Yankees would have to acquire another arm for their bullpen, which might force them to trade one of their younger players, something they worked hard not to do this past off-season when they had a chance (and blew it big-time) to get Johan Santana

 

Putting Joba in the starting rotation also creates injury risks. The demands of a starting pitcher are much greater than that of an 8th inning reliever. After pitching only 112 innings last year, asking Joba to take on a full load of innings would be too much to handle

 

In the coming weeks and months, Yankee fans will begin to see who is really in control of the team. If Joba is inserted into the rotation then Hank is calling all of the shots. If Joba stays in the bullpen then Girardi and Cashman are still in control. Well, at least for now

 

 

Get Your Facts Straight

 

The Montreal Canadians Have Won More Titles Than The 20th Century Skanks!!!

[26TimeWorldChampions]

Get Your Facts Straight

 

The Montreal Canadians Have Won More Titles Than The 20th Century Skanks!!!

Put down the crack pipe buddy. The Yankees have won 26 World Series titles. The Montreal Canadiens have won 24 Stanley Cups.

[Guest Scooter]

I agree with Hank, Joba as a setup man is idiotic. Koufax, Gibson, Seaver, Johnson, Beckett, Schilling etc. were all starters and World Series heroes. They were not used in the 8th inning.

Joba hs the stuff to be a true numer 1. The Yanks don't have that. The closest they have is groundball pitcher Wang. The Yanks have not won since 2000. HELLO, this formula we have been using does not work. You can't make it past the playoff teams without an ace. I guarantee you that if you keep Joba in the bullpen this team will have NO CHANCE if they make the playoffs. Joba does the team no good if you are losing by the 8th inning. The Yanks will not win slugfests in the playoffs. They are going up against teams with good pitching. If you go into the playiffs Wang is the best we have but not as good as Becket or Sabathia. The aging Pettite is hit or miss. The other three starters you can forget about winning playoff games. Having Joba as a starter has other benifits. Joba has a good chance of going 7 innings as a starter which will save the bullpen from the 3 and 4 inning outings from the three yankee stiffs currently in the rotation.

I think Bruney can pitch the 8th inning. I like the chances of him trying to get three outs then hoping Hughes and kennedy can pitch 18 outs. (It is not going to happen)

 

Agree the Yanks have not won since 2000, but how did they win in those years? Starters like Doc Gooden only had to go 6 because Nelson and the other setup guy, whose name escapes me, did 2-3 innings to get to Rivera and it was lights out. If Joba has a good chance to go 7, great, but right now we don't know that just like we didn't know about Hughes and Kennedy. My gut still tells me Joba is good for 3-4 as a starter and when his tank is empty of emotion and adrenaline, we rely on Farnsworth and Hawkins, etc. Not a warm and fuzzy feeling. I'd rather roll the dice on Hughes, Kennedy and Moose finding the formula to get in 6 and get to the pen. If they do start Chamberlain, and he is aces, who does he replace? Wang and Chamberlain win, Pettite throws .500 or a little better, Moose throws .500 or a little worse and Hughes and Kennedy bomb, thats a less than .500 team come Oct. Good discussion started by 26 TWC.

 

[Guest Old School]

I used to have a good time playing fast-pitch softball with other good softball players. In the seventh inning of a 4-3 game, neither team had a reliever to get three outs. To "save" the talent of JOBA in the bullpen is just rediculous. Fifteen years from now he may have won 200 games, and be looking @ a HOF career when the Yank's stop depending on run production from 8 or 9 10 year vets. The last young guy that came up in the Yankee's organization and won anything is JETER, with 4. Let JOBA start. We will never know if he can get to Clemen's numbers (clean), nor even Christy Mathewson's win total ( a Honesdale,PA kid)(definately clean), unless JOBA gets the chance to strike out the side in the ninth. Mirrors our society, exceptional talent gets managed by DELETED.

[Guest Guest]

I used to have a good time playing fast-pitch softball with other good softball players. In the seventh inning of a 4-3 game, neither team had a reliever to get three outs. To "save" the talent of JOBA in the bullpen is just rediculous. Fifteen years from now he may have won 200 games, and be looking @ a HOF career when the Yank's stop depending on run production from 8 or 9 10 year vets. The last young guy that came up in the Yankee's organization and won anything is JETER, with 4. Let JOBA start. We will never know if he can get to Clemen's numbers (clean), nor even Christy Mathewson's win total ( a Honesdale,PA kid)(definately clean), unless JOBA gets the chance to strike out the side in the ninth. Mirrors our society, exceptional talent gets managed by DELETED.

Great analogy Old School. Comparing the 2008 NY Yankees to your old softball days.

[Guest Joe Lefebvre]

Mussina shows he can still give 7 strong against a decent hitting ball club. I'll take him as a 4 or 5 man in the rotation any day. I expect that Hughes will pitch well tonight. Yankees winning without A-ROD. That line-up is still the best hitting line-up in baseball (Outscored #2 last year by 76 runs) and those "aging vets" will come through AGAIN.

 

Kennedy is thse one that puzzles me so far. Hasn't shown the stuff he did last year.

 

Giambi & Cano haven't even started hitting yet and the pitching has been less than stellar - but we are still 12-10 and looking to sweep the first place White-Sox.

 

I'll take it for now. Things will only get better...

 

 

[Guest Guest]

He should stay in the bullpen unless they absolutly need him to start. He feeds of the intensity of the late innings. He could be a start every other night for years or every 5 days. We already know he is a great reliever and have no idea how he will be as a starter. If he flops then he will loses confidence and may not be the same if he returns to the bullpen. He should stay in the bullpen and replace Mariano when he retires

[Guest Guest]

He should stay in the bullpen unless they absolutly need him to start. He feeds of the intensity of the late innings. He could be a start every other night for years or every 5 days. We already know he is a great reliever and have no idea how he will be as a starter. If he flops then he will loses confidence and may not be the same if he returns to the bullpen. He should stay in the bullpen and replace Mariano when he retires

 

 

With a team from top to bottom full of guys that can't hit when the big hit is needed, I think the Yanks need to have dominant pitching and they don't and or worn't have that to rely on. Joba will be tremendous as a set up guy and looks like a Papelbon type presence that can end teh games when Mo' leaves.

I say they keep him where he is at and all Yankee fans storm teh gates and choke Cash for not getting Johan for two marginal talents in Hughes and Kennedy.

[Guest Guest]

For all of you that think Joba should be a starter. Did you watch last nights game? Girardi had to bring Mariano in to get 5 outs because the bullpen flat out stinks. I'd love to see Joba as a starter, but right now the Yanks need him to as a reliever because THEY DON'T FREAKING HAVE ANYBODY ELSE TO DO THE JOB!

[Guest Guest]

For all of you that think Joba should be a starter. Did you watch last nights game? Girardi had to bring Mariano in to get 5 outs because the bullpen flat out stinks. I'd love to see Joba as a starter, but right now the Yanks need him to as a reliever because THEY DON'T FREAKING HAVE ANYBODY ELSE TO DO THE JOB!

 

 

 

Hello, the Yanks have not won since 2000 with your broken down theory. I repeat, if the playoff games are decided before the 8th inning Joba is a total waste in the bullpen. Bruney was hurt last night. He can pitch the 8th. ohlendorf can pitch the 8th. Mo can pitch the 8th and 9th in a big playoff game. Outside of Wang and naybe Pettite we have nobody who can pitch in a big playoff game. Joba started his whole career, this talk about him being an unkown as a starter is silly. Joba was dominant as a starter last year in the minors. This crop of Yankee starters is the worst this decade. If the other staffs since 2000 failed, this staff has no chance. We need Joba to start two games every playoff series.

[Guest Guest]

Hello, the Yanks have not won since 2000 with your broken down theory. I repeat, if the playoff games are decided before the 8th inning Joba is a total waste in the bullpen. Bruney was hurt last night. He can pitch the 8th. ohlendorf can pitch the 8th. Mo can pitch the 8th and 9th in a big playoff game. Outside of Wang and naybe Pettite we have nobody who can pitch in a big playoff game. Joba started his whole career, this talk about him being an unkown as a starter is silly. Joba was dominant as a starter last year in the minors. This crop of Yankee starters is the worst this decade. If the other staffs since 2000 failed, this staff has no chance. We need Joba to start two games every playoff series.

The Yanks haven't won since 2000 because their pitching stinks. Period. No, Bruney can't pitch the 8th and neither can Ohlendorf. Wang can't pitch in a big playoff game. Did you miss the Yanks/Indians series last year. Wang stunk it up big-time. Pettitte maybe? Andy Pettitte is the only proven starter we have in the postseason.

[Guest Joe Lefebvre]

It took an act of GOD to derail the Bombers last year in Cleveland (A million gnats off the lake descending on Joba's grill).

Yanks win that game and then game 3 in NY and it's 2-1 in the series. Cleveland chokes at that point and we move on to pound Boston like we always do (with one exception in 100 years - I know).

 

You people act like the Yanks are so far away from #27 - when it's been right there for the taking several times (including last year !).

 

Be patient with Hughes and Kennedy - they will come around. Hughes will show you all tonight ...

 

It's April kids - Ye of little faith ...

[Guest Guest]

It took an act of GOD to derail the Bombers last year in Cleveland (A million gnats off the lake descending on Joba's grill).

Yanks win that game and then game 3 in NY and it's 2-1 in the series. Cleveland chokes at that point and we move on to pound Boston like we always do (with one exception in 100 years - I know).

 

You people act like the Yanks are so far away from #27 - when it's been right there for the taking several times (including last year !).

 

Be patient with Hughes and Kennedy - they will come around. Hughes will show you all tonight ...

 

It's April kids - Ye of little faith ...

 

Yanks haven't won in the postseason this since 2000 because they chke. They have no clutch hitting and the Indians were dealing with the same Gnats and don't give me they were used to it... When the Yanks pulled the greatest choke in the history of sports in 04' , everything changed and this team with weak pitching and good regular season batting isn't going to bring another WS anytime soon.

 

 

@

[Guest Roy Oswalt starter]

The Yanks haven't won since 2000 because their pitching stinks. Period. No, Bruney can't pitch the 8th and neither can Ohlendorf. Wang can't pitch in a big playoff game. Did you miss the Yanks/Indians series last year. Wang stunk it up big-time. Pettitte maybe? Andy Pettitte is the only proven starter we have in the postseason.

 

 

The only thing you were right on is that the pitching stinks. This is why Joba should be a starter, to give them better playoff starting pitching. I am not going to give up on Wang because of his bas performance last year. He won 38 games the last two years, he just got in a slump at the wrong time last year. Joba, Wang and Pettie gives us a shot. Wang, Pettie and Hughes gives us no shot.