The Spanish Inquisition

[A Faithful Catholic]

Huh? You mean false websites have truth to distort? Somehow that isn't making much sense.

 

 

Oh they know the truth, but try to twist it.

[Jon]

Heretics try to justify themselves by distorting the truth on these false websites.

I have yet to see that.

 

BTW, can you please list some websites you consider truthful about Faith?

 

[A Faithful Catholic]

Exactly! How many did Hitler kill personally?

 

It is specious of A Faithful Catholic to deny Inquisition

murders were carried out in the name of his Church.

 

 

They were carried out by the GOVERNMENTS. Heresy was AGAINST CIVIL LAW. It was on the same level as TREASON! You have no idea what those time frames were like. You think they were just like today's. No way.

[A Faithful Catholic]

I have yet to see that.

 

BTW, can you please list some websites you consider truthful about Faith?

 

 

Sure. No problem. The ORIGINAL CHRISTIAN FAITH:

 

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm

 

Jon, why don't you have a gander at this website???? Read a little......

[Jon]

They were carried out by the GOVERNMENTS. Heresy was AGAINST CIVIL LAW. It was on the same level as TREASON! You have no idea what those time frames were like. You think they were just like today's. No way.

Next you'll be telling us that those governments were not at the Church's beck and call. Dream on, but try not to snore platitudes.

 

[A Faithful Catholic]

Next you'll be telling us that those governments were not at the Church's beck and call. Dream on, but try not to snore platitudes.

 

Doesn't matter Jon. The law of the LAND was heresy was a punishable crime. People were caught going against the law and paid the price. They knew what the risks were. They didn't care, obviously.

 

[LunaC]

Doesn't matter Jon. The law of the LAND was heresy was a punishable crime. People were caught going against the law and paid the price. They knew what the risks were. They didn't care, obviously.

That is ludicrous. Jews and Muslims caused the Spanish Inquisition? You have GOT to be kidding me! The LAW can be wrong (as has been proven over and over), especially in the time period that you are referring to.

 

So, you now are condoning torture and mass executions in defence of your "faith"?

 

You are one sick ticket.

[Uncle Geo]

I have yet to see that.

 

BTW, can you please list some websites you consider truthful about Faith?

Jon, You know what would be nice? Just for once, have you post some websites that support what you believe, whatever that may be.

 

I don't think you've ever done that, have you? I may have missed it. It would be nice to know just what you believe in for once. what exactly are the articles of your faith?

 

Will you do that for us?

[Guest Zyklon B]

I have an idea, lets throw the jews into the lake. If they float, they are false converts, if they sink, they really accepted Jeebus H. Christy.

 

 

Not a bad idea. They'd probably all still scream while drowning about the money-making scheme know as the holocaust--"Never forget"--always the schekels.

You hear about the new German microwave? It seats 12. Oh Vey!!!

[Jon]

Jon, You know what would be nice? Just for once, (?????) have you post some websites that support what you believe, whatever that may be.

 

I don't think you've ever done that, have you? I may have missed it. It would be nice to know just what you believe in for once. what exactly are the articles of your faith?

 

Will you do that for us?

Been there, Done that, Got the insults.

 

My 'Articles of Faith' were established the traditional way followed for centuries before the advent of websites. I don't rely on those. ( Have websites implanted your 'Articles of Faith'?)

 

Despite that I have broken with habit and posted some sites in the past. You may indeed have missed that.

 

If it seems relevant I may do so again. What I will not do is jump through someone's hoops, out of context, just for the sake of it. That would only escalate into the "War of the Websites" with A Faithful Catholic scoffing aside any site that is not deeply Catholic.

 

That game is predictable from experience and I won't be beguiled into it again.

 

On one notable occasion I presented an informative site and A Faithful Catholic's reply indicated that he had gotten no further than skip-reading the opening Paragraph on the Home Page, made some wrong assumptions and looked no further. He would not have made those wrong assumptions if he had gone further into that extensive site. I ended up having to do that for him.

 

Such arbitrary dismissal of any and all non-Catholic sites I may cite doesn't need to happen often to rule out any merit of repeating the opportunity I offered. Remember, Matthew 7 : 6.

[Guest Guest]

Baloney:

 

1.) The Jews and Muslims made FALSE CONVERSIONS into the Catholic Church and WERE CAUGHT. They brought on the Inquisition themselves.

2.) It is the militant homosexual agendas that have tried to attack the normal definition of the family and aretrying to NORMALIZE their lifestyles. They have made progress in many heretical churches. Purely satanic.

 

 

Thanks. I will take a kick to the teeth for Christ.

 

I'm having a hard time believing how incredibly stupid a person would have to be to actually believe this.

Evidentally you didn't comprehend a previous post that made an apt comparison between your thinking and blaming the Jews for Hitler's atrocities. That is a perfect analogy, but it went, and will forever go, over your head.

 

You're scary. So torture by a church is ok if it's for the right reasons, huh?

[A Faithful Catholic]

I'm having a hard time believing how incredibly stupid a person would have to be to actually believe this.

Evidentally you didn't comprehend a previous post that made an apt comparison between your thinking and blaming the Jews for Hitler's atrocities. That is a perfect analogy, but it went, and will forever go, over your head.

 

You're scary. So torture by a church is ok if it's for the right reasons, huh?

 

That was a HORRIBLE analogy. The Jews didn't break any laws. The Jews were killed just for being Jews. Hitler wanted to get rid of a whole race of people. Queen Isabella wanted to root out the conspirators. When they were caught they were punished under her laws. The Jews and the Muslims should not have tried to bring down the CC in those days, especially when the Queen was a staunch Catholic. Those people knew the huge risks and did it anyway.

 

The Church didn't torture anyone. Queen Isabella and her government did because those conspirators VIOLATED CIVIL LAW and were punished by her.

 

It is a PURE FACT that the Jews and Muslims made FALSE CONVERSIONS into the Catholic Church and WERE CAUGHT trying to bring it down from within. They brought on the Inquisition themselves. If they didn't break the law of the land, there would not have been an inquisition to root out all the conspirators.

[Guest Guest]

Ignore him. Confirmation of his mental instability has been received.

[Guest Guest]

That was a HORRIBLE analogy. The Jews didn't break any laws. The Jews were killed just for being Jews. Hitler wanted to get rid of a whole race of people. Queen Isabella wanted to root out the conspirators. When they were caught they were punished under her laws. The Jews and the Muslims should not have tried to bring down the CC in those days, especially when the Queen was a staunch Catholic. Those people knew the huge risks and did it anyway.

 

The Church didn't torture anyone. Queen Isabella and her government did because those conspirators VIOLATED CIVIL LAW and were punished by her.

 

It is a PURE FACT that the Jews and Muslims made FALSE CONVERSIONS into the Catholic Church and WERE CAUGHT trying to bring it down from within. They brought on the Inquisition themselves. If they didn't break the law of the land, there would not have been an inquisition to root out all the conspirators.

 

 

I guess if you keep repeating fantasy to yourself enough, it becomes true, huh?

 

I guess if Africans had been wise enough not to get caught in Africa in slavetrading days, they might not have been sold into slavery.

 

Keep defending laws that the CC used to send Jews to torture and death, when their only "crime" was to be Jewish. Hence, the Holocaust analogy.

 

The rest of us know better.

 

You're actually doing your faith a disservice by trying to sell us your line of lies. You'd be better off not posting at all. No wonder you're losing membership in Middle Class America.

[A Faithful Catholic]

I guess if you keep repeating fantasy to yourself enough, it becomes true, huh?

 

It's the truth.

 

I guess if Africans had been wise enough not to get caught in Africa in slavetrading days, they might not have been sold into slavery.

 

They didn't break any laws. :blink: :blink: :blink:

 

Keep defending laws that the CC used to send Jews to torture and death, when their only "crime" was to be Jewish. Hence, the Holocaust analogy.

 

There crimes were conspiracies committed against the CC. The broke civil law and were caught doing it. That's the difference and you know it.

 

The rest of us know better.

 

You don't speak for anybody. They are not all as ignorant as you are.

You're actually doing your faith a disservice by trying to sell us your line of lies. You'd be better off not posting at all. No wonder you're losing membership in Middle Class America.

 

Translation: I can't stand AFC's truths and I want him to stop.

 

People are leaving the Church because they have turned their back on God. It is that simple. :blink: :blink:

 

 

[Guest Guest]

Ignore him. Confirmation of his mental instability has been received.

[Guest Guest]

It's the truth.

 

 

 

They didn't break any laws.

 

 

 

There crimes were conspiracies committed against the CC. The broke civil law and were caught doing it. That's the difference and you know it.

 

 

 

You don't speak for anybody. They are not all as ignorant as you are.

 

 

 

 

People are leaving the Church because they have turned their back on God. It is that simple.

 

 

You know for a fact that Africans didn't break any laws before they were put on slaving ships?

 

Aren't you the Know it all of the World?

 

"People were tortured and killed for breaking laws, and that's ok" is 17th Century thinking. You might want to update your outlook a bit.

"That's just the way it was back then."

 

Right. The CC hide sexually criminal priests for the past 100+ years here in the US. Was that done, too, because "that's the way it was done"???

 

Don't look now, but people are leaving the CC because of the overbearing Rule-bound dogmatic teachings, the rites are archaic, and the whole church is out of sync with the rest of the world here in 2008.

 

They gave themselves a black eye by hiding criminal priests. You're not adding to any beneficial PR with your "Jews were tortured for breaking laws" excuses.

[Uncle Geo]

Been there, Done that, Got the insults.

 

My 'Articles of Faith' were established the traditional way followed for centuries before the advent of websites. I don't rely on those. ( Have websites implanted your 'Articles of Faith'?)

 

Despite that I have broken with habit and posted some sites in the past. You may indeed have missed that.

 

If it seems relevant I may do so again. What I will not do is jump through someone's hoops, out of context, just for the sake of it. That would only escalate into the "War of the Websites" with A Faithful Catholic scoffing aside any site that is not deeply Catholic.

 

That game is predictable from experience and I won't be beguiled into it again.

 

On one notable occasion I presented an informative site and A Faithful Catholic's reply indicated that he had gotten no further than skip-reading the opening Paragraph on the Home Page, made some wrong assumptions and looked no further. He would not have made those wrong assumptions if he had gone further into that extensive site. I ended up having to do that for him.

 

Such arbitrary dismissal of any and all non-Catholic sites I may cite doesn't need to happen often to rule out any merit of repeating the opportunity I offered. Remember, Matthew 7 : 6.

 

Ok, ok .... Websites aside ... I'm really interested in what your faith beliefs are .... e.g. do you believe in a Triune God, Transubstantiation, sola scritura, Jesus as God and man, the bible as the "final" word of God, predestination .... whatever else is important to your faith ... not limited to what I just listed. I suggested a website because I thought it might be more inclusive to the fullness of your beliefs ... that's all.

 

Of course, you always have the option of not wanting to talk about the issue ... though disappointed, I would respect that.

[Jon]

Ok, ok .... Websites aside ... I'm really interested in what your faith beliefs are .... e.g. do you believe in a Triune God, Transubstantiation, sola scritura, Jesus as God and man, the bible as the "final" word of God, predestination .... whatever else is important to your faith ... not limited to what I just listed. I suggested a website because I thought it might be more inclusive to the fullness of your beliefs ... that's all.

 

Of course, you always have the option of not wanting to talk about the issue ... though disappointed, I would respect that.

I have already addressed such questions at least three times before that come most readily to mind:

 

Fri Jan 18, 2008,

Thur Feb 21 2008, Post #572 Ash Wednesday

Sun Mar 2 2008, 01 Post #344 Can You Be Christian Without Going To Church?

 

However, in specific reference to items you have raised: Triune God ... symbolically / Transubstantiation ... not literally / Sola Scriptura ... in the absence of better evidence / Jesus as God and man ... symbolically / the Bible as the "final" word of God ... a preview / Predestination ... depends how defined.

 

Whatever else is important to your faith ... unassailable reasons for my beliefs. I believe no one should accept the label of 'heretic' for embracing commonsense. It saddens me to see some settle for less.

 

Do you need more info from which to draw inferences and assemble a profile? Just review my posts. They wouldn't be there for all to see if I were not comfortable with that. I have little to add.

[Madned]

While Torquemada's religious fervor can hardly be questioned, Whitechapel raises the possibility that the king, queen, and pope had other motives for wanting an inquisition--financial interests. Sixtus IV needed funds to "subdue rebels in the Papal states and fight a war against Muslims in the east." Ferdinand and Isabella wanted to mount their own war against Muslims residing in Grenada, and they, too, needed money to finance it. According to the rules of the inquisition, local inquisitors could seize the property of any person accused of heresy, and that property would ultimately fall into the hands of the monarchy. An accused person always had the option of buying an expensive pardon from the Vatican. Both the pope and monarchs stood to profit from the Spanish Inquisition, especially because the heretics targeted by Torquemada were reputed to be a prosperous lot--conversos, Jews who had converted to Catholicism.

 

I am not surprised money again as with Oliver Cromwell. He confiscated land from my ancestors as well as killed many. One victim of the Spanish Inquisition and I am sorry I cannot remember his name. When told he was going to be forced to sit in the spiked chair where a fire was built underneath. Said I am deciding whose name I shall call out first as an accomplice, he was set free.