Does Reality Exist?

[Jon]

Madned, is this who you're referring to?

 

Saint Pio of Pietrelcina

Interesting! I've read that reference in detail. There is only one conclusion to draw: whatever caused Pietrelcina's physical torments, it was neither Supernatural nor Holy. The same could be asserted for any of the Devout who experience mysterious appearance of 'Stigmata' on the hands.

 

Even if we suspect some mind-over-matter Psychosomatic or hysterical/neurotic process caused the Stigmata, the whole phenomenon unravels so completely that all else becomes suspect along with it.

 

Why would The Supernatural Lord go to all the trouble to single out occasional very unremarkable mortals to mark with replicas of Christ's wounds on the hands? Why does He always seem to do this to persons of volatile Southern European cultures? Why does He always seem to pick persons of low educational background? Why does He always pick individuals from cultures noted for irrational modes of thought and for a rich tradition of strongly believed Superstitions? Why does He always emboss His Stigmata on simple, gullible folk who would believe any religious or pseudo-religious fiction they are told, and whose customary company would too easily believe likewise?

 

But more damning than ever, why would the good Lord who knows about these things inflict these Stigmata of GREAT symbolic significance ... IN THE WRONG DAMN PLACE??

 

Without any historical or biblical proof, medieval and Renaissance painters have given us our picture of Christ carrying the entire cross. Many of these painters and most of the sculptors of crucifixes today show the nails through the palms. Roman historical accounts and experimental work have shown that the nails were driven between the small bones of the wrists and not through the palms. Nails driven through the palms will strip out between the fingers when they support the weight of a human body. The misconception may have come about through a misunderstanding of Jesus words to Thomas, Observe my hands. Anatomists, both modern and ancient, have always considered the wrists as part of the hand.

 

http://www.csun.edu/~hbeng151/icc/studies/account.html

Over the years I have heard this same debunk from numerous medical sources.

 

Whatever the source of those latter-day Stigmata it was not the One who should know best of all where the nails really went through! Whoever put those holes in people's palms was acting on false information.

 

I rest my case.

[Madned]

After a bit of a break I'm rejoining the 'BRAINS tRUST'.(LOL)

 

I intend to backtrack to some of the earlier Quantum issues etc but right now it's the wrong wee hour for me to do all that justice.

So I'll ease back into this with the points you raise, Madned, since they have long intrigued me likewise.

 

"Where did the matter come from for the Big Bang?"

 

A few theories kicking around. Take your pick. One has it that the Big Bang was more of a Big Bounce: a prior Universe reached the end of its expansion, slowed then fell back in upon itself ever faster until all its substance became stupendously compacted and hot in a singularity of sorts. That's where all the matter for the Big Bang came from ... right there. A problem I see with that theory lies with the way our present Universe seems to be behaving. If the Pundits are right then the Dark Energy that is believed to be expanding our Universe is accelerating and shows no sign of abating ... quite the opposite. That seems to suggest that our Universe is not destined to collapse, but rather to disperse into infinity with no prospect of return. If that is in fact correct then whatever pre-Bounce Universes might have preceded ours, this one would become the last of the 'line'. If prior Universes didn't do that, then why should ours? What would cause our Universe to follow different laws from one or more prior Universes?

 

Unless there never were any!

 

Another theory has it that no 'matter' as we understand it pre-dated the Big Bang. Instead there was nothing but formless 'Quantum Foam', un-resolved into even sub-atomic particles. Then at some stage a 'Phase Transition' occurred ... an 'instability'. That became a runaway chain reaction releasing huge amounts of energy that condensed to particles a la 'E=Mc2'. A tendency toward Symmetry saw Matter and Antimatter produced in equal quantities ... well, almost but not quite. When Matter and Antimatter mutually annihilated, the process didn't complete because there were some particles left un-annihilated and were 'left over'. Those leftovers just happened to be Baryonic Matter as we know it, and represent a tiny minute pile of impurities that escaped annihilation to linger on as Galaxies, Stars ..... and us. There may be less of a problem with that theory provided we revisit the image of a Big Bang and question how literally it portrays reality. It is worth noting that rather than striving to describe what really happened, 'Big Bang' was first coined as a term of ridicule by the eminent Astronomer Fred Hoyle who was sold on the rival 'Steady State' theory (as was Einstein). That held that the Universe has always occupied its present 'state' and that new material is constantly coming into existence spontaneously throughout it. It starts to sound rather like the Phase Transition idea all over again, in which formless pure energy condenses into physical impurities, except that it was not over and done with at the launch of creation but remains ongoing like a sustained smoldering rather than a literal 'explosion'. Then the Big Bang becomes more of a sustained 'Rumble'.

 

Then we might not need to ask where the matter came from for the Big Bang, because there was no Big Bang. Matter is still coming into existence as we speak.

 

And to maintain the balance it is just as quickly being recycled out of existence courtesy of Black Holes.

 

There are more theories, but at this hour my energy is condensing it particles too ... called 'sleep'.

 

Later. (lol)

 

Great reading Hoyle I believe went to his grave believing in the steady state, and I have to admit you are much more up on the subject than I. Matter and anti matter in perfect proportion would guarantee the enilation of both. Super colliders producing more quarks and leptons and other sub atomic particles to numerous to keep track of When they all may be just strings of vibrating energy or super strings. Heller I believe when asked about the latest particle said how do you expect me to keep track of them. And philosophers will be trying to make some meaning out of it all. It certainly looks like a dangerous place for matter with cosmic vacuum cleaners called black holes. Let us not forget wormholes, the means by which we would have to use to travel anywhere in this universe given the propulsion systems we have been told about. And the tons of lead we would have to be encased in to prevent cosmic radiation pulsating through us recycling us as you said back to star material. Just off the subject this past summer at a party in the back yard I got a little looped and started on the miracle we live on this little space ship we are on. And this guest said to me why in the hell did I care about the subject. Needless to say My next conversation with him will be filled with grunts and head nods as he bores me into an alcoholic stupor. Later enjoy your post.

 

[Madned]

Interesting! I've read that reference in detail. There is only one conclusion to draw: whatever caused Pietrelcina's physical torments, it was neither Supernatural nor Holy. The same could be asserted for any of the Devout who experience mysterious appearance of 'Stigmata' on the hands.

 

Even if we suspect some mind-over-matter Psychosomatic or hysterical/neurotic process caused the Stigmata, the whole phenomenon unravels so completely that all else becomes suspect along with it.

 

Why would The Supernatural Lord go to all the trouble to single out occasional very unremarkable mortals to mark with replicas of Christ's wounds on the hands? Why does He always seem to do this to persons of volatile Southern European cultures? Why does He always seem to pick persons of low educational background? Why does He always pick individuals from cultures noted for irrational modes of thought and for a rich tradition of strongly believed Superstitions? Why does He always emboss His Stigmata on simple, gullible folk who would believe any religious or pseudo-religious fiction they are told, and whose customary company would too easily believe likewise?

 

But more damning than ever, why would the good Lord who knows about these things inflict these Stigmata of GREAT symbolic significance ... IN THE WRONG DAMN PLACE??

 

 

Over the years I have heard this same debunk from numerous medical sources.

 

I am not going to get into an argument over this subject call, it what you like I was only pointing out what that what we percieve as reality may not be what others percieve. Yes I have read that the Romans had teams who carried out these executions and indeed they hammered the nails through the wrist and they used a wooden washer on the other side to prevent it coming loose. Putting it through the hand would indeed not support the body. Also most Crucifixions were done on a post and not a cross. Why he would pick someone of low educational background I could only speculate. He did not want someone so imperious and such a large ego he would be unable to communicate with less than an a phd you know intellectuals. That breed I believe died in 1840 when a person was able to learn all that was known at the time. Was his stigmata phony?I would venture a guess no. The Church had doubts but made him a saint a process that takes many years of investigation. I will go out on a limb here and tell you about an experience I and a friend had at work we were having a conversation about Moses and how he had a stutter And he were mimicking him saying lllletttt mmmyyyy pppppeopple goooo from Exodus when I had a electric shock go through my heart my friend said to me as we both looked startled did you have a shock go through you and I said yes as he had the same thing happen to him you will probably say coincidence. I believe we crossed the line. A little background on me and my friend is in order here, both retired lucky not to be incarcerated not bible thumpers. He has his own stone quarry in essences not academics. believe what you want and go in peace.

 

Whatever the source of those latter-day Stigmata it was not the One who should know best of all where the nails really went through! Whoever put those holes in people's palms was acting on false information.

 

I rest my case.

 

[The West Sider]

Unfortunately, it does not exist in Binghamton.

 

TWS

[Jon]

I am not going to get into an argument over this subject call, it what you like I was only pointing out what that what we percieve as reality may not be what others percieve.

Quite, Madned. And don't get me wrong, I too appreciate the difference between Objective Reality and Subjective Reality.

 

Why he would pick someone of low educational background I could only speculate. He did not want someone so imperious and such a large ego he would be unable to communicate with less than an a phd you know intellectuals.

Alternatives could include: individuals prone to delusions ... mental deficiencies. Or individuals whose own sense of self worth is so low that craving for recognition and acceptance by their peers becomes an obsession, driving them to bizarre lengths to cheat their way into acclaim.

 

Or like you I too could go out on a limb and question whether there even is an all knowing Lord who should have gotten it right when He chose where to put Stigmata on Believers.

 

The flinty Skeptic in me cries out that the Stigmata episodes speak of very un-Mystic 'Copy-Catting', in which susceptible individuals contrive to give Reality a convenient little 'nudge-along' via whatever means of self-mutilation comes to hand (pun vehemently denied! LOL). Except that the Copy-cat blueprint handed down to them by tradition contains errors, and knowing no better they faithfully perpetuate those same errors. So they mutilate their palms instead of their wrists ... all based on mistaken hearsay. To my take on Reality, that discrepancy catches them out, and has done so every time.

 

Let's face it ... that's a real Show-stopper making further 'argument' of doubtful merit.

 

If I may digress playfully for a moment, I would like to draw an analogy:

 

A string of crimes have Police baffled and they resignedly call for public help to solve them. In due course an individual hands himself in, confessing to the crimes. Formalities of interrogation follow. In the course of those investigations discrepancies emerge between the suspects confession and firm evidence that Police have not yet made public. Those discrepancies prove that the suspect could not have committed the crimes he confessed to. His testimony fails because it relies on publicly circulated data that was incomplete. One key detail might be all it takes to negate his entire representation decisively, no matter how elaborate.

 

I see anatomical mis-location of the Stigmata similarly.

 

Was his stigmata phony?I would venture a guess no. The Church had doubts but made him a saint a process that takes many years of investigation.

Regardless of Denomination, Churches in general have a formidable track record of mis-using Reason. Contrary to all the laws of logic, what Church 'investigations' typically do is elevate a cherished outcome to the status of a 'given'. All related 'investigation' then becomes devoted to funneling findings toward that 'given'. To be charitable, I do not claim that all such funneling is nefarious. Like moths to a flame Ecclesiastical thinkers are drawn to such modes of mentality by virtue of the culture to which they have committed themselves and in which they are so immersed that they are hampered from true freedom of critical thought. For a great many of them Reality becomes hard to distinguish from Magic.

 

I will go out on a limb here and tell you about an experience I and a friend had at work we were having a conversation about Moses and how he had a stutter And he were mimicking him saying lllletttt mmmyyyy pppppeopple goooo from Exodus when I had a electric shock go through my heart my friend said to me as we both looked startled did you have a shock go through you and I said yes as he had the same thing happen to him you will probably say coincidence. I believe we crossed the line. A little background on me and my friend is in order here, both retired lucky not to be incarcerated not bible thumpers. He has his own stone quarry in essences not academics. believe what you want and go in peace.

Interesting. Until I read your account I had no knowledge of Moses' stutter. 'Coincidence' as you say, might be one explanation I would promote ... and I do. However I wouldn't rule out other possibilities too. Deep in your heart of hearts you might be even more committed to Spiritual issues than you realize. If so, it would not sit comfortably with you to ridicule figures of Spiritual prominence whom you respect. A sense of guilt for doing so could summon physiological reaction which in this instance may have taken the form of a cascade of nerve impulses in the region you describe. This is not so obscure an event. Similar experiences are well known and documented in Medicine and associated fields of study. The pathway between mind and body is more than a forest trail ... it is a full blown multi-lane highway linking thought and body intimately in BOTH directions.

[Guest Ancient Evil Reborn]

one would become the last of the 'line'. If prior Universes didn't do that, then why should ours? What would cause our Universe to follow different laws from one or more prior Universes?

 

Unless there never were any!

 

Jon, did you miss the other link I posted?

 

Loopy quantums reveal successive universes

 

This fails though to answer your question re: why a prior universe would follow different laws of physics than our own. We don't know yet either how far dark energy will go, but as of this time, yeah, what you're saying raises a real question as to whether there will be another universe after this one, because as of now, this one appears destined to end in a thin haze of ice, no more big bangs.

 

I find amazing though Laurence Krauss' hypothesis that because of the observations made in 1998 that first led us to suspect the existence of dark energy, we reset the quantum clock, thereby dooming the universe. If that is true (and that is a very big if), then it is dramatic (albeit unpleasant) proof of our ability to alter reality simply by observing it. But again, that doesn't establish the hypothesis we started the thread with, does reality need an observer?

 

Then we might not need to ask where the matter came from for the Big Bang, because there was no Big Bang. Matter is still coming into existence as we speak.

 

Point taken, physics is presently in a state of constant flux, and there is indeed an alternative hypothesis to the Big Bang (I'll find the link when I have a chance) that suggests infinite planes beyond our own crash together periodically spewing matter into our universe.

[Jon]

Jon, did you miss the other link I posted?

Sorry, I did ... and I didn't. As I said to Madned in my reply to him, I intend to get back to those early quantum-type points you raised. I still do. I will undertake to do so before the Universe dissipates entirely. (lol)

 

I seem to have fallen victim to that pesky timezone offset again, plus time spent trying to rescue Reality on a certain other thread that shall remain nameless. (lol)

 

This fails though to answer your question re: why a prior universe would follow different laws of physics than our own.

If we are to accept what some Physicists etc are saying, contrary to my somewhat simplistic assertion the Laws Of Physics may themselves even be mutable. It's hard to conceive of and goodness knows what sort of Universe would result, but for starters even in our own Universe it seems they are finding mounting evidence that the golden standard we revere so much ... the Speed of Light ... may not always have been what it is today. My peasant logic immediately insinuates that if they are right about that, then maybe other 'Laws of Physics' are likewise negotiable. That opens a Pandora's Box of possibilities limited only by our imaginations. (You'll find I will often champion one position in this thread, only to cast doubt on it a few posts later. Such is the nature of the material ... and of me! LOL )

 

We don't know yet either how far dark energy will go, but as of this time, yeah, what you're saying raises a real question as to whether there will be another universe after this one, because as of now, this one appears destined to end in a thin haze of ice, no more big bangs.

A couple of years ago I was brainstorming this on another forum and came up with an idea that startled me so much I did an elaborate graphic of it. I've still got it and should be able to dig it up for running past you guys ( a sort of mini 'Peer Review' LOL). It would slot in nicely with areas we seem to be getting into right about now. It involves 'Density Waves'.

 

I find amazing though Laurence Krauss' hypothesis that because of the observations made in 1998 that first led us to suspect the existence of dark energy, we reset the quantum clock, thereby dooming the universe. If that is true (and that is a very big if), then it is dramatic (albeit unpleasant) proof of our ability to alter reality simply by observing it. But again, that doesn't establish the hypothesis we started the thread with, does reality need an observer?

Yes, I saw that reviewed somewhere only recently. It sounds to me more like an artifact of Mathematical weirdness than a Reality. Let's Thought-Experiment this a little: What SORT of observations would reset the Quantum Clock? What SORT of observer? (a cutting-edge Physicist or the driveway attendant at Joe's Garage?) HOW MANY observers? (is the effect proportional to how many observers make the observation, or alternatively how often one observer makes the observation?) If we get everyone in the world to make the same Dark Energy observation at once can that end the Universe next week? If we can purge the observation from every observers' memory will that win the Universe a reprieve?

 

I know. I sound flippant. But when we are dealing with something as off-the-wall as this nothing should be excluded from consideration. Sooner or later two bizarre propositions could coalesce and start to take on substance of Reason.

 

Point taken, physics is presently in a state of constant flux, and there is indeed an alternative hypothesis to the Big Bang (I'll find the link when I have a chance) that suggests infinite planes beyond our own crash together periodically spewing matter into our universe.

Brane Theory {'M' theory)? The question raised there for ME at least is that as soon as the source of creation is given a proposed shape the very next question has got to be 'what determines the boundaries of that shape'? Then we run hard up against the interchangeability of Time and Space.

 

My Meta-cosmic brain needs its Power Nap.

 

Later! (lol)

[Madned]

Quite, Madned. And don't get me wrong, I too appreciate the difference between Objective Reality and Subjective Reality.

 

 

Alternatives could include: individuals prone to delusions ... mental deficiencies. Or individuals whose own sense of self worth is so low that craving for recognition and acceptance by their peers becomes an obsession, driving them to bizarre lengths to cheat their way into acclaim.

 

Or like you I too could go out on a limb and question whether there even is an all knowing Lord who should have gotten it right when He chose where to put Stigmata on Believers.

 

The flinty Skeptic in me cries out that the Stigmata episodes speak of very un-Mystic 'Copy-Catting', in which susceptible individuals contrive to give Reality a convenient little 'nudge-along' via whatever means of self-mutilation comes to hand (pun vehemently denied! LOL). Except that the Copy-cat blueprint handed down to them by tradition contains errors, and knowing no better they faithfully perpetuate those same errors. So they mutilate their palms instead of their wrists ... all based on mistaken hearsay. To my take on Reality, that discrepancy catches them out, and has done so every time.

 

Let's face it ... that's a real Show-stopper making further 'argument' of doubtful merit.

 

If I may digress playfully for a moment, I would like to draw an analogy:

 

A string of crimes have Police baffled and they resignedly call for public help to solve them. In due course an individual hands himself in, confessing to the crimes. Formalities of interrogation follow. In the course of those investigations discrepancies emerge between the suspects confession and firm evidence that Police have not yet made public. Those discrepancies prove that the suspect could not have committed the crimes he confessed to. His testimony fails because it relies on publicly circulated data that was incomplete. One key detail might be all it takes to negate his entire representation decisively, no matter how elaborate.

 

I see anatomical mis-location of the Stigmata similarly.

 

 

Regardless of Denomination, Churches in general have a formidable track record of mis-using Reason. Contrary to all the laws of logic, what Church 'investigations' typically do is elevate a cherished outcome to the status of a 'given'. All related 'investigation' then becomes devoted to funneling findings toward that 'given'. To be charitable, I do not claim that all such funneling is nefarious. Like moths to a flame Ecclesiastical thinkers are drawn to such modes of mentality by virtue of the culture to which they have committed themselves and in which they are so immersed that they are hampered from true freedom of critical thought. For a great many of them Reality becomes hard to distinguish from Magic.

 

 

Interesting. Until I read your account I had no knowledge of Moses' stutter. 'Coincidence' as you say, might be one explanation I would promote ... and I do. However I wouldn't rule out other possibilities too. Deep in your heart of hearts you might be even more committed to Spiritual issues than you realize. If so, it would not sit comfortably with you to ridicule figures of Spiritual prominence whom you respect. A sense of guilt for doing so could summon physiological reaction which in this instance may have taken the form of a cascade of nerve impulses in the region you describe. This is not so obscure an event. Similar experiences are well known and documented in Medicine and associated fields of study. The pathway between mind and body is more than a forest trail ... it is a full blown multi-lane highway linking thought and body intimately in BOTH directions.

 

Padre Pio was also suspected of using sulphuric acid to keep his wounds open. Perhaps a pathological liar and con man as well bilking the impoverished peasants out of the little Lira they managed to collect after years of toiling in the fields for their rich landlords. All this to support his lavish lifestyle of drinking and wenching and racing his donkey across the mountain tops. All this because he wanted to be accorded the same respect and admiration that his Idol Rasputin (The mad Monk) Had during his lifetime. In my own delusional way I have come to respect him. Anyone using so much acid on himself and in the wrong place daily. Remembering my religious experience the lightning bolt through my chest, and now finding out it was an illusion because of my delusional mental state. I am lucky it was not boils that covered my body. But then I could tell people I am not covered in boils it is an illusion. Hey Dad I finally made it I am somebody totally out of my rabbit ass mind. The milky way madman. Lost in some mobius strip of unending multiple realities. Talking to Moses as the Egyptians finally push him out of Egypt and into the wilderness were for forty years they slaughter everything in their path, Pause take more Thorazine listen to the voices in my head. Always guilt ridden missed my chance for Pope. Mad at last thank God mad at last. No more guessing.

 

[Guest Ancient Evil Reborn]

It certainly looks like a dangerous place for matter with cosmic vacuum cleaners called black holes. Let us not forget wormholes, the means by which we would have to use to travel anywhere in this universe given the propulsion systems we have been told about.

 

Madned, actually, it has been speculated we might be able to build a thing called a tachyon drive, which would effectively allow us to bypass space/time as we know it, and instantaneously travel wherever we wanted in the universe. The History Channel had a show on space travel where this was discussed, it is a far more powerful concept than even wormholes, and the energy requirements might be feasible for us.

[Madned]

Madned, actually, it has been speculated we might be able to build a thing called a tachyon drive, which would effectively allow us to bypass space/time as we know it, and instantaneously travel wherever we wanted in the universe. The History Channel had a show on space travel where this was discussed, it is a far more powerful concept than even wormholes, and the energy requirements might be feasible for us.

 

That is a new one for me tachyon drive I will have to look it up. Seems to fly in the face of old Einstein and the speed of light being an absolute. And to approach it would require all the energy of the known universe to propel a craft to that speed. But again what do we know. I would hope that if there are beings out there that are using such technology, and have visited us that they can feel some pity for us Idiots and save this Oasis called Earth we are not doing such a good job. Good night.

 

[Guest Ancient Evil Reborn]

Unfortunately, it does not exist in Binghamton.

 

True, too true.

[Guest Ancient Evil Reborn]

Sorry, I did ... and I didn't. As I said to Madned in my reply to him, I intend to get back to those early quantum-type points you raised. I still do. I will undertake to do so before the Universe dissipates entirely. (lol)

 

I think we have a few trillion years yet. We can while away the hours till then with fun topics like this.

 

I seem to have fallen victim to that pesky timezone offset again, plus time spent trying to rescue Reality on a certain other thread that shall remain nameless. (lol)

 

Ah, yes, you don't have to name that thread. I admire your tenacity in that cause, and it tells me you have a quixotic streak in you, but at my age in life I no longer share it. Perhaps twenty years ago...

 

If we are to accept what some Physicists etc are saying, contrary to my somewhat simplistic assertion the Laws Of Physics may themselves even be mutable. It's hard to conceive of and goodness knows what sort of Universe would result, but for starters even in our own Universe it seems they are finding mounting evidence that the golden standard we revere so much ... the Speed of Light ... may not always have been what it is today. My peasant logic immediately insinuates that if they are right about that, then maybe other 'Laws of Physics' are likewise negotiable. That opens a Pandora's Box of possibilities limited only by our imaginations.

 

Here is another homework assignment for me, I need to find a link to an eight year old article. In 2000, the results of an experiment were published in Nature magazine that indeed raised questions about the speed of light. Physicists shot a laser beam pulse through a tube filled with cesium vapor, the beam traversed the tube at over 300 times the speed of light. Even more astounding, the laser beam pulse completely exited the tube before it had fully entered it. Now that is mind-bending, it suggests some sort of time shift.

 

Relativity works so well for explaining many things, we often forget it is still a theory, not every aspect of it has been completely demonstrated. And in fact, there are places where Relativity and Quantum Physics don't agree, in particular, on gravity. There are attempts to reconcile the two, including String Theory, and Loop Quantum Gravity (which is what was used to hypothesize a prior universe with different laws of physics). It would not surprise me if all our current theories break down in some extreme boundary condition, much as Newtonian Mechanics breaks down near the speed of light, or in the presence of an intense gravity field. For example, we still aren't really sure what happens beyond the event horizon of a black hole, although there is now an experiment underway to find out:

 

Laser light creates black holes in the lab

 

I'm not sure though, for obvious reasons, I wish them much success in this experiment. At the least I would not care to be near ground zero when they attempt this.

 

(You'll find I will often champion one position in this thread, only to cast doubt on it a few posts later. Such is the nature of the material ... and of me! LOL )

 

It doesn't trouble me that you question your own positions, it has been said a fool questions others, and wise man questions himself. My own view of life has changed greatly over the years, and I no longer adhere to positions that were dear to me in the days of my youth.

 

A couple of years ago I was brainstorming this on another forum and came up with an idea that startled me so much I did an elaborate graphic of it. I've still got it and should be able to dig it up for running past you guys ( a sort of mini 'Peer Review' LOL). It would slot in nicely with areas we seem to be getting into right about now. It involves 'Density Waves'.

 

I look forward to seeing this.

 

Yes, I saw that reviewed somewhere only recently. It sounds to me more like an artifact of Mathematical weirdness than a Reality.

 

Heh, there is a lot of weirdness in Mathematics, including the concept of different orders of infinity. Most people find that a little mind blowing.

 

Let's Thought-Experiment this a little: What SORT of observations would reset the Quantum Clock? What SORT of observer? (a cutting-edge Physicist or the driveway attendant at Joe's Garage?) HOW MANY observers? (is the effect proportional to how many observers make the observation, or alternatively how often one observer makes the observation?) If we get everyone in the world to make the same Dark Energy observation at once can that end the Universe next week? If we can purge the observation from every observers' memory will that win the Universe a reprieve?

 

OK, how about I think about it, and get back to you? Seriously, I'm tired, it's getting close to midnight my time. I'm a mathematician (yes, for real), not a physicist, so I need to give it some thought, but what from I understand in reading Krauss' conclusions, we're pretty much screwed as far as the quantum clock is concerned.

 

I know. I sound flippant. But when we are dealing with something as off-the-wall as this nothing should be excluded from consideration. Sooner or later two bizarre propositions could coalesce and start to take on substance of Reason.

 

Often off-the-wall ideas work out quite nicely. Were you aware the engineer who conceived of FM radio was told he was a crackpot? We all know how that worked out.

 

Brane Theory {'M' theory)? The question raised there for ME at least is that as soon as the source of creation is given a proposed shape the very next question has got to be 'what determines the boundaries of that shape'? Then we run hard up against the interchangeability of Time and Space.

 

Perhaps after my brain gets some much needed sleep, I can offer some thoughts on that, but I'm done for tonight. I'll catch up with you tomorrow.

[Jon]

A couple of years ago I was brainstorming this on another forum and came up with an idea that startled me so much I did an elaborate graphic of it. I've still got it and should be able to dig it up for running past you guys ( a sort of mini 'Peer Review' LOL). It would slot in nicely with areas we seem to be getting into right about now. It involves 'Density Waves'.

I look forward to seeing this.

When I found the files I was taken aback to be reminded that I had compiled this theory and graphics 5 years ago! My, how SpaceTime flies! (lol)

 

As Promised:

 

*I've provided the image URLs un-tagged as a backup in case BCVoice's software gets the sulks.

 

I have no scientific qualifications to back up the model contemplated here; just abiding interest of a rank amateur.

Debate about prospects of life elsewhere has included descriptions of spiral arms of galaxies as regions of high density, with intervening regions of lower density seen as safer places for life-supporting stars like our sun.

 

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/2232/galaxydj7.jpg

 

This got me thinking: on a larger scale, what if our entire observable Universe is itself positioned likewise? In a far greater “Out There” Universe, what if our observable region currently occupies a haven of low density between “onion-layers” of higher density wavefronts migrating outward like proverbial pond ripples, from origins far beyond reach of telescopes we could ever construct?

If so, this could help to make more sense of some developing theories in current Astronomy.

For example, observations reveal that our Observable Universe is expanding.

If occupying a low-density region at present, space in our part of the greater Universe could be dilating. In due course contraction would follow, in an everlasting pattern of alternations as density waves overtake us successively.

The time scale would be would be huge, of course, but a “Greater Out There Universe” would have plenty of such time.

 

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/911/ast...ytheory2gj7.jpg

 

To pursue this line of thought further, the “Big Bang” often referred to could represent the most recent occasion of many, in which a passing density wave had compressed our region severely before moving on. A following interval of low density would then allow our observable Universe to re-expand, perhaps explosively, from practically nothing as in the Big Bang theory.

Distant objects we can observe are presently rushing away from us, in whichever direction we look, so expansion is indeed occurring. Furthermore, in a progression of density peaks and troughs, if we happen to be at the onset of a trough, this could explain why our observable Universe is not only expanding, but is doing so at an accelerating rate. This behaviour would eventually plateau before going into reverse.

 

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7567/densitywavesou0.jpg

 

If there is a way to prove the rate of acceleration is itself undergoing change, then this could further point to the concept of density alternations at huge scales of time and space.

Perhaps we have a precursor to such investigation in the theory of Inflation. Offering to explain troublesome anomalies in the apparent history of our observable Universe, Inflation theory envisages a finite, out-of-character period of accelerated expansion. An alternative could be that Inflation is, and has been ever present, smoothed out to accompany the entire history of our universe rather than occurring as an abrupt event. By definition this would entail acceleration of expansion at all times so far, such as we now observe. Smooth progression would also seem more in character with the idea of alternating periods of high and low density. At the onset of a trough of low density Inflation would begin gradually, but as density falls more acutely, Inflation could accelerate exponentially then taper off, but never to zero until the low density trough ‘bottoms out’.

[Madned]

I think we have a few trillion years yet. We can while away the hours till then with fun topics like this.

 

 

 

Ah, yes, you don't have to name that thread. I admire your tenacity in that cause, and it tells me you have a quixotic streak in you, but at my age in life I no longer share it. Perhaps twenty years ago...

 

 

 

Here is another homework assignment for me, I need to find a link to an eight year old article. In 2000, the results of an experiment were published in Nature magazine that indeed raised questions about the speed of light. Physicists shot a laser beam pulse through a tube filled with cesium vapor, the beam traversed the tube at over 300 times the speed of light. Even more astounding, the laser beam pulse completely exited the tube before it had fully entered it. Now that is mind-bending, it suggests some sort of time shift.

 

Relativity works so well for explaining many things, we often forget it is still a theory, not every aspect of it has been completely demonstrated. And in fact, there are places where Relativity and Quantum Physics don't agree, in particular, on gravity. There are attempts to reconcile the two, including String Theory, and Loop Quantum Gravity (which is what was used to hypothesize a prior universe with different laws of physics). It would not surprise me if all our current theories break down in some extreme boundary condition, much as Newtonian Mechanics breaks down near the speed of light, or in the presence of an intense gravity field. For example, we still aren't really sure what happens beyond the event horizon of a black hole, although there is now an experiment underway to find out:

 

Laser light creates black holes in the lab

 

I'm not sure though, for obvious reasons, I wish them much success in this experiment. At the least I would not care to be near ground zero when they attempt this.

 

 

 

It doesn't trouble me that you question your own positions, it has been said a fool questions others, and wise man questions himself. My own view of life has changed greatly over the years, and I no longer adhere to positions that were dear to me in the days of my youth.

 

 

 

I look forward to seeing this.

 

 

 

Heh, there is a lot of weirdness in Mathematics, including the concept of different orders of infinity. Most people find that a little mind blowing.

 

 

 

OK, how about I think about it, and get back to you? Seriously, I'm tired, it's getting close to midnight my time. I'm a mathematician (yes, for real), not a physicist, so I need to give it some thought, but what from I understand in reading Krauss' conclusions, we're pretty much screwed as far as the quantum clock is concerned.

 

 

 

Often off-the-wall ideas work out quite nicely. Were you aware the engineer who conceived of FM radio was told he was a crackpot? We all know how that worked out.

 

 

 

Perhaps after my brain gets some much needed sleep, I can offer some thoughts on that, but I'm done for tonight. I'll catch up with you tomorrow.

 

The event horizon near a black hole , what an interesting place it may be where an object has left an image of itself. Although it has since disappeared in to the black hole. No place I would want to be. I also read the article about the laser light going faster than the speed of light exiting before it has entered a tube. Einstein's brain was said to have twice as many gluon cells compared to the average brain, perhaps that is what is needed to fathom the many questions of our existence. Or how about mind expanding drugs, Timothy Leary may have had the answers but chose not to share them. And that in itself raises another question how would old Tim know if he was dead or alive or even on this planet? Did they save his brain or did some one snort or smoke it? Tacyhon's like the greater Bozon may not even exist wormholes being so unstable no one would want to enter one. Recent article said our sun doe's not work the way we thought, with no explanation? First I heard that one. Also said it may have a wormhole. Hey why not.

[Guest Guest]

Here's a great book...definately worth a look:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Holographic-Universe...0787&sr=8-1

 

 

[Madned]

I look forward to seeing this.

When I found the files I was taken aback to be reminded that I had compiled this theory and graphics 5 years ago! My, how SpaceTime flies! (lol)

 

As Promised:

 

*I've provided the image URLs un-tagged as a backup in case BCVoice's software gets the sulks.

 

I have no scientific qualifications to back up the model contemplated here; just abiding interest of a rank amateur.

Debate about prospects of life elsewhere has included descriptions of spiral arms of galaxies as regions of high density, with intervening regions of lower density seen as safer places for life-supporting stars like our sun.

 

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/2232/galaxydj7.jpg

 

This got me thinking: on a larger scale, what if our entire observable Universe is itself positioned likewise? In a far greater “Out There” Universe, what if our observable region currently occupies a haven of low density between “onion-layers” of higher density wavefronts migrating outward like proverbial pond ripples, from origins far beyond reach of telescopes we could ever construct?

If so, this could help to make more sense of some developing theories in current Astronomy.

For example, observations reveal that our Observable Universe is expanding.

If occupying a low-density region at present, space in our part of the greater Universe could be dilating. In due course contraction would follow, in an everlasting pattern of alternations as density waves overtake us successively.

The time scale would be would be huge, of course, but a “Greater Out There Universe” would have plenty of such time.

 

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/911/ast...ytheory2gj7.jpg

 

To pursue this line of thought further, the “Big Bang” often referred to could represent the most recent occasion of many, in which a passing density wave had compressed our region severely before moving on. A following interval of low density would then allow our observable Universe to re-expand, perhaps explosively, from practically nothing as in the Big Bang theory.

Distant objects we can observe are presently rushing away from us, in whichever direction we look, so expansion is indeed occurring. Furthermore, in a progression of density peaks and troughs, if we happen to be at the onset of a trough, this could explain why our observable Universe is not only expanding, but is doing so at an accelerating rate. This behaviour would eventually plateau before going into reverse.

 

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7567/densitywavesou0.jpg

 

If there is a way to prove the rate of acceleration is itself undergoing change, then this could further point to the concept of density alternations at huge scales of time and space.

Perhaps we have a precursor to such investigation in the theory of Inflation. Offering to explain troublesome anomalies in the apparent history of our observable Universe, Inflation theory envisages a finite, out-of-character period of accelerated expansion. An alternative could be that Inflation is, and has been ever present, smoothed out to accompany the entire history of our universe rather than occurring as an abrupt event. By definition this would entail acceleration of expansion at all times so far, such as we now observe. Smooth progression would also seem more in character with the idea of alternating periods of high and low density. At the onset of a trough of low density Inflation would begin gradually, but as density falls more acutely, Inflation could accelerate exponentially then taper off, but never to zero until the low density trough ‘bottoms out’.

 

Jon I do not mean to take anything away from Eienstien but you being a mathametician have to admit he stood on the shoulders of some great mathameticians ( excuse the spelling my spell check is screwed up) I wonder did he give Lorenze and others any credit? It was noted he was not that well in math and often sought out help. I would hope he was humble enough to share any accolades with them. Quantum mechanics has certainly gotten out of hand. to the point that even raising a question may ultimatley cause our doom. What egotism. Nikola Tesla in my opinion could have surppased Eienstien if he had gone a different direction and now that the unabomber has alot of time on his hands he may come up with something profound. He is certainly capable even if he is insane. Einstien looked like he was just hit with a cattle prod all the time. Sorry what is causing the acceleration inflation or the great attractor or dark energy or that butterfly in south America ask a quantum guy.

[Guest Ancient Evil Reborn]

All this because he wanted to be accorded the same respect and admiration that his Idol Rasputin (The mad Monk) Had during his lifetime.

 

So Padre Pio idolized Rasputin, VERY interesting indeed. Rasputin was, at least by all accounts I've heard, a person of dubious character, but supposedly gifted with some extraordinary abilities. Just the effort it took to kill him speaks to that.

 

We could debate the source of such supposed abilities endlessly, but what I find interesting is apparently such things do exist to at least to some degree. Consider the feats attributed to Eastern Martial Arts masters, many of them credit chi with being the source of their abilities. Of course we could still find ourselves in the same quagmire with them, how real is any of it? In their case though, some of them have come into science labs, and there they have produced very measurable effects in the form of electrical currents in their bodies, particularly in their hands.

 

So, there is some scientific evidence as to the mind's ability to create and control physical phenomenon, the source though, at least in my mind, is a different question.

[Guest Ancient Evil Reborn]

When I found the files I was taken aback to be reminded that I had compiled this theory and graphics 5 years ago! My, how SpaceTime flies! (lol)

 

Jon, your density wave theory is quite interesting, and fits with some current observations. We believe the universe is roughly fifteen billion years old, and we also believe, based on current observations and theory, that expansion was slowing down for the first ten billion of those years. In other words, dark matter was winning, its drag was overcoming the initial shock wave caused by the Big Bang. But then, around five billion years ago, we believe dark energy finally gained the upper hand, and started to accelerate the expansion again.

 

That sort of fits with your idea of successive waves causing different effects during different periods in the lifespan of the universe. Dark energy is a rather astounding phenomenon, we know of nothing that could cause energy increases in an apparent void, yet that appears to be exactly what is happening.

 

I'm still thinking about your points in an earlier message re: observers, so I'll get back to you on that.

 

[Jon]

Jon I do not mean to take anything away from Eienstien but you being a mathametician have to admit he stood on the shoulders of some great mathameticians ( excuse the spelling my spell check is screwed up) I wonder did he give Lorenze and others any credit? It was noted he was not that well in math and often sought out help. I would hope he was humble enough to share any accolades with them. Quantum mechanics has certainly gotten out of hand. to the point that even raising a question may ultimatley cause our doom. What egotism. Nikola Tesla in my opinion could have surppased Eienstien if he had gone a different direction and now that the unabomber has alot of time on his hands he may come up with something profound. He is certainly capable even if he is insane. Einstien looked like he was just hit with a cattle prod all the time. Sorry what is causing the acceleration inflation or the great attractor or dark energy or that butterfly in south America ask a quantum guy.

Madned, you do me too much honour. (lol).

 

I said in an earlier post that I'm not a Math Wiz. You might have misread that. If the world had to rely on me as a trailblazer in Math then national budgets would still be calculated by counting knuckle-bones on some cave floor.(LOL)

 

Einstein freely admitted to limitations in his own Mathematical abilities (I knew we had something in common! LOL), and I believe I've seen documentation in which he was quite forthcoming about his reliance on Lorenz's mathematical prowess.

 

I take great Heart from your remarks about the consequences of raising Quantum questions. Modern Man has always striven to get his head around the enormity of the Universe. There are now promising signs that if he observes it intently enough he might throw its expansion into reverse and shrink it to fit within his own cranium. Then he'll know everything about it! (lol)

 

I'm glad you mentioned Nikola Tesla. I have always believed he was hugely underrated. His greatest tragedy seems to have been that he worked for a boss who had no shred of conscience, in the person of Thomas Alva Edison. He suppressed many of Tesla's breakthroughs as 'not being commercially viable enough'. Other Tesla innovations that showed (at the time) more commercial 'bang for the buck' Edison took full credit for and marketed to his own commercial advantage and acclaim. Had Tesla prevailed we might had ended up using not AC electricity but DC, able to be fed into the sky from a Tesla tower at one point and siphoned back to use at ground level wherever needed. The only problem would have been apportioning electricity bills according to usage because that would have been harder to track per user. Edison opposed that, and so we've all ended up using cables. There was much more. I hope someday Tesla's unsung innovations will be dusted off and applied.

 

I suspect that Einstein's Theory of Relativity was such a breakthrough because among other things it caused us to realize that Time and Space are the same thing in different guises and that under certain conditions they even behave as each other. I think if I had made that discovery, I too would feel entitled to wear my hair like it were an explosion in a bird-nest factory! (LOL)

 

What has all this got to do with Reality? Simply this: The equation E=Mc2 will not work if you factor in a hair-stylist! (LOL)

[Madned]

So Padre Pio idolized Rasputin, VERY interesting indeed. Rasputin was, at least by all accounts I've heard, a person of dubious character, but supposedly gifted with some extraordinary abilities. Just the effort it took to kill him speaks to that.

 

We could debate the source of such supposed abilities endlessly, but what I find interesting is apparently such things do exist to at least to some degree. Consider the feats attributed to Eastern Martial Arts masters, many of them credit chi with being the source of their abilities. Of course we could still find ourselves in the same quagmire with them, how real is any of it? In their case though, some of them have come into science labs, and there they have produced very measurable effects in the form of electrical currents in their bodies, particularly in their hands.

 

So, there is some scientific evidence as to the mind's ability to create and control physical phenomenon, the source though, at least in my mind, is a different question.

 

That was in jest about Rasputin at least you admit to some degree, and lets for the moment forget scientific evidence for the most part. And remember what has been posted so far is a stretch for the most imaganitive. If I remember right visual proof was suspended in the early nineteen twenty's or earlier so theoretical physics could continue. Thus we are here today, not so far removed from the supernatural realm. With all the bizarre theories abounding today. Here is a thought for you. The Dali Lama was asked a question( would a soul ever inhabit a computer) His reply, maybe if it was smart enough.

Since we are dealing with reallity. May I ask what do you think about remote viewing and Ingo Swan. An expert on the subject and employed by our goverment? Biolocation was an abillity that Saint Pio was supposed to have. but not being employed by our goverment or excepted by the scientific community. He has to be dismissed. Bhuudist have discribed the surface of our planets without using a space ship to get there .But surprisingly after we send our Robots there we find out it is what they have already told us. If you have never been a lucid dreamer train yourself to be one ( I am one and never had to train a plus for me) It is very simple to do. And one of the first thing a Bhuudist monk in training must learn. The logic being if you can controll your dreams you can controll your life. The greatest honor I have recieved was from one of my nephews, He is 42 and very successful and he said thank you for learning me to Fly. This I guess requires some explaining. For those of you who already can do this I apolgize. After all the subject is reallity. And to Jon I would be surprised if you do not do this. In an nut shell you know you are dreaming and you just take off flying or jump of a cliff, which takes more faith and fly it is the most enjoyable feeling I have ever expierenced and you look forward to sleeping you view the earth from on high in vivid color and people for that matter. For people who think this is whacko. All I can say is this is a very simple process and any one can do it and it is very enjoyable. Except for the scientific people stuck in thier sticky EGO. It may be as Jon would say because I pissed my pants when I was Two. To be serious all you have to do is before you go to sleep is say to yourself I am going to remember I am dreaming. This may take awhile but when you can get controll of your dreams you can manipulate the whole scene and do what ever you want. Jon if you have not done this you are letting reallty rule you. When ever I have talked about saints or anything religous to certain people it is like I am throwing holy water on them. The reaction is out of proportion to what anyone would expect the last person ended up in prison for selling stollen machine guns. This guy hated me and most everybody else His daughter tried to shoot him and suceeded but the amunition was old and did not kill him. This path we follow is called a world line the path we take through space time. Give the supernatural a break and Padre PIO.

[Jon]

Madned, I think the best way I can answer the interesting observations you share is to return my own counterpart. This might seem hard to believe or to reconcile but in me strange bedfellows coexist in unexpected harmony.

 

On one hand I have a fertile imagination. I have no difficulty invoking rich mental experiences that go far beyond day-to-day experience. These can take me into unexplored realms of mind-blowing creativity.

 

On the other hand I find I never need to loosen my grip on practical Reality in order to do this. While I soar across space and jostle with chunks of ice orbiting in the Rings of Saturn I will not let a saucepan boil over on the kitchen stove ... if you get my drift. Personally I shun any means of altering my state of mind because its natural state is as rewarding as I believe anyone would wish for. The world might be my Oyster but the Universe is my Banquet, all without leaving my chair.

 

Unprompted my grown daughter remarked recently that I seem never to have lost a childlike wonder at the most humble things in my surroundings. At the time I was waxing lyrical over the rippled pattern of sand on the floor of a pool at the sea shore. She was right, and I was touched that she had noticed. It doesn't take much to fascinate me. (lol)

 

Over the years I have become unshakably convinced, and have often said to others, that for instance I've never been at all tempted to take any substances that might alter my mental state in the manner of a 'trip', because for me by far the most exciting 'trip' I could ever experience is my normal state of mind, operating just as it was 'designed' to.

 

Am I missing out on something? If at some time in my past I had not experimented at least a little with 'enhancements' I could not answer that question. Fortunately that is not the case. My flirtation with effects of recreational substances was pleasant, but brief. The reason is that their influence at those times served only to confirm that I could derive nothing that way that I couldn't without them. I merely recognised familiar sensations that I had always been able to summon up voluntarily anyway. That includes feelings of dissociation, euphoria, psychedelic or whatever. Perhaps I'm a natural visionary, yet no transcendental meditation or other recognised technique or tradition is resorted to.

 

So the experiences you describe, Madned, in the sense of 'flying', lucid dreaming and such like are not something I actively seek to induce. I suspect that I have some innate facility for comparable experiences my own way whatever that is, and I prefer not to interfere. It's enriching my life abundantly as it is, and always has done.

 

For me, that is my Reality ... and it's a BLAST! (lol)

[Madned]

Madned, you do me too much honour. (lol).

 

I said in an earlier post that I'm not a Math Wiz. You might have misread that. If the world had to rely on me as a trailblazer in Math then national budgets would still be calculated by counting knuckle-bones on some cave floor.(LOL)

 

Einstein freely admitted to limitations in his own Mathematical abilities (I knew we had something in common! LOL), and I believe I've seen documentation in which he was quite forthcoming about his reliance on Lorenz's mathematical prowess.

 

I take great Heart from your remarks about the consequences of raising Quantum questions. Modern Man has always striven to get his head around the enormity of the Universe. There are now promising signs that if he observes it intently enough he might throw its expansion into reverse and shrink it to fit within his own cranium. Then he'll know everything about it! (lol)

 

I'm glad you mentioned Nikola Tesla. I have always believed he was hugely underrated. His greatest tragedy seems to have been that he worked for a boss who had no shred of conscience, in the person of Thomas Alva Edison. He suppressed many of Tesla's breakthroughs as 'not being commercially viable enough'. Other Tesla innovations that showed (at the time) more commercial 'bang for the buck' Edison took full credit for and marketed to his own commercial advantage and acclaim. Had Tesla prevailed we might had ended up using not AC electricity but DC, able to be fed into the sky from a Tesla tower at one point and siphoned back to use at ground level wherever needed. The only problem would have been apportioning electricity bills according to usage because that would have been harder to track per user. Edison opposed that, and so we've all ended up using cables. There was much more. I hope someday Tesla's unsung innovations will be dusted off and applied.

 

I suspect that Einstein's Theory of Relativity was such a breakthrough because among other things it caused us to realize that Time and Space are the same thing in different guises and that under certain conditions they even behave as each other. I think if I had made that discovery, I too would feel entitled to wear my hair like it were an explosion in a bird-nest factory! (LOL)

 

What has all this got to do with Reality? Simply this: The equation E=Mc2 will not work if you factor in a hair-stylist! (LOL)

 

Jon Tesla as you know was screwed over by Edison, and I am sure there was a great deal of jealousy on the part of Edison working in near proximity of a true genius. Tesla did well with Westinghouse and let him of the hook by tearing up the contract he had with him over being paid a certain sum per horse power per electric motor. He let Marconi see his plans for radio. And then had to take him to court over the patent rights, but he did win. Steinmetz could not hold a candle Tesla. He had a lot of fun with his Tesla coils in his endeavor to transmit power without wires. I am sure he was into microwaves also. One remark he made to Westinghouse was I can show people how to have all the power they need simply by pounding a rod in the ground and using my equipment. Westinghouse replied we cannot have that I would not make any money. I have always wondered what Tesla was alluding to. Tesla was more interested in his work than money and we will probably never know completely what he came up with. Westinghouse probably feeling some guilt supported him in his later years. E=Mc2 so simple yet so profound c2 is a huge number nature uses squared quite often. At the time a hand full of people understood what he was talking about. An average person has more energy than a thousand Hiroshima bombs. And if I remember the first bombs only released one or two percent of the available energy. If we were really dealing with reality on this planet we would have stopped using fossil fuels years ago. Oh well I have talked to electrical engineers who know nothing of Tesla. Glad to see you feel the same about him as I. Later

 

[Madned]

Madned, I think the best way I can answer the interesting observations you share is to return my own counterpart. This might seem hard to believe or to reconcile but in me strange bedfellows coexist in unexpected harmony.

 

On one hand I have a fertile imagination. I have no difficulty invoking rich mental experiences that go far beyond day-to-day experience. These can take me into unexplored realms of mind-blowing creativity.

 

On the other hand I find I never need to loosen my grip on practical Reality in order to do this. While I soar across space and jostle with chunks of ice orbiting in the Rings of Saturn I will not let a saucepan boil over on the kitchen stove ... if you get my drift. Personally I shun any means of altering my state of mind because its natural state is as rewarding as I believe anyone would wish for. The world might be my Oyster but the Universe is my Banquet, all without leaving my chair.

 

Unprompted my grown daughter remarked recently that I seem never to have lost a childlike wonder at the most humble things in my surroundings. At the time I was waxing lyrical over the rippled pattern of sand on the floor of a pool at the sea shore. She was right, and I was touched that she had noticed. It doesn't take much to fascinate me. (lol)

 

Over the years I have become unshakably convinced, and have often said to others, that for instance I've never been at all tempted to take any substances that might alter my mental state in the manner of a 'trip', because for me by far the most exciting 'trip' I could ever experience is my normal state of mind, operating just as it was 'designed' to.

 

Am I missing out on something? If at some time in my past I had not experimented at least a little with 'enhancements' I could not answer that question. Fortunately that is not the case. My flirtation with effects of recreational substances was pleasant, but brief. The reason is that their influence at those times served only to confirm that I could derive nothing that way that I couldn't without them. I merely recognised familiar sensations that I had always been able to summon up voluntarily anyway. That includes feelings of dissociation, euphoria, psychedelic or whatever. Perhaps I'm a natural visionary, yet no transcendental meditation or other recognised technique or tradition is resorted to.

 

So the experiences you describe, Madned, in the sense of 'flying', lucid dreaming and such like are not something I actively seek to induce. I suspect that I have some innate facility for comparable experiences my own way whatever that is, and I prefer not to interfere. It's enriching my life abundantly as it is, and always has done.

 

For me, that is my Reality ... and it's a BLAST! (lol)

 

You wax eloquently It is a pleasure to read your comments. That is just one of my simple pleasures.

 

[Jon]

I don't think they are saying there is no reality as the title implies. Its just saying local realism might be false.

 

Reality is not going anywhere.

A profound insight, Aaron. I think you're right.

 

[Jon]

A reality check on Reality?

 

Reality for each of us is an amalgam of impressions and abstract perceptions. My same Daughter whose remark I cited above about my view of the world had more to do with formulating my own view of Reality than she might realize. When she was only four years old she was relaxing on the lounge floor one afternoon with a marking pen and sketchbook, happily intent on filling a page with red dots.

 

A young father fresh out of University with a head-ful of Philosophy and Psychology lectures, I knew exactly what all those dots meant. Here was my little Princess symbolizing on paper a world rich in childhood fantasy, populated by fairytales and fabulous creatures. Every dot had a deep significance to her imaginary narrative.

 

I grasped a moment of opportunity to exercise the loving duty of an attentive parent. Summoning up the over-acted interest of a father wanting his small child to feel appreciated and encouraged, I asked her what her picture was about. I braced myself for a profound outpouring of wondrous castles, of Princes and journeys, of wizards and spells, of exotic places and magical dragons.

 

From her four-year-old threshold of verbal fluency she framed her reply with effort:

 

"Spots!".