Jon Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 It's called FAITH. I wish you had more of it...You could be very useful. Weeks ago I made an inescapable connection here between Catholic Church domination and impoverished countries. Naturally you rejected any causal relationship but the evidence has been compelling for centuries. I have loads of Faith, but I'm sure it's not the variety of 'Faith' you would approve of, because my 'Faith' is based on Evidence and Observation. What those oppressed populations do with their money and how they spend their time between earning it are things they are not allowed to decide for themselves. The Church prospers at their expense. Indirectly the lead story here touches on one facet of that abuse. It happens to be on US soil this time, but it is a sample of what goes on even more elsewhere. Churches may well serve a useful purpose for some ... I don't dispute that. But when it comes to wealth they are White Elephants or worse, and none more so than the Catholic Church. I have been to the Vatican. I have been in the Sistine Chappel. I have walked in awe among the Vatican's galleries of riches. The wealth condensed within Vatican City is obscene when measured on the same scale that includes the downtrodden and destitute outside in the real world of folk who have to feed their own mouths with their own toil. Until the Catholic Church and others put their money where their mouth is, I will hold the views I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Faithful Catholic Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 Weeks ago I made an inescapable connection here between Catholic Church domination and impoverished countries. Naturally you rejected any causal relationship but the evidence has been compelling for centuries. Giving to the church has been condoned by Jesus and the Apostles. There is nothing wrong in it. I have loads of Faith, but I'm sure it's not the variety of 'Faith' you would approve of, because my 'Faith' is based on Evidence and Observation. Your faith is based on HUMAN observations and not revealed truth. What those oppressed populations do with their money and how they spend their time between earning it are things they are not allowed to decide for themselves. Oh, yeah? Who stops them? The Church prospers at their expense. Indirectly the lead story here touches on one facet of that abuse. It happens to be on US soil this time, but it is a sample of what goes on even more elsewhere. Churches may well serve a useful purpose for some ... I don 't dispute that. But whe3n it comes to wealth they are White Elephants or worse, and none more so than the Catholic Church. Who's going to pay the bills of the Church? Feed the priests? Health care? Insurance? You think the money is going to fall from the sky? I have been to the Vatican. I have been in the Sistine Chappel. I have walked in awe among the Vatican's galleries of riches. The wealth condensed within Vatican City is obscene when measured on the same scale that includes the downtrodden and destitute outside the real world of folk who have to feed their own mouths with their own toil. Un til the Catholicf It was an ABSOLUTE blessing for you to go to the Vatican, if you really did. I wish I could go. Feeding the poor is NOT the primary mission of the Church. The worship of God is and helping in the salvation of souls. I don't think one bit that the Catholic Church should "break itself" for the poor....especially when Jesus Himself said you will always have the poor. Their will always be poor people no matter what you do. No matter how much you give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 Giving to the church has been condoned by Jesus and the Apostles. There is nothing wrong in it. But not on the rapacious scale seen today. Your faith is based on HUMAN observations and not revealed truth. I would rather trust my own observation than have to count my fingers after shaking hands with a Priest who professes to observe for me. Oh, yeah? Who stops them? You mean you don't know of those many countries in which if Parishioners are not in Church they are gathered at ritualistic and idolatrous parades through streets of towns and villages celebrating some saint or other, or some Church festival? Where there is some Saint's Day for every day of the year and most are celebrated. The time and energy spent in religious carnivals and festivals would do wonders for lifting those folk out of poverty if instead it were spent in the fields or at the factory bench. Truth is they are kept too busy with showy devotions to come up for air and question what it's really all about. Who's going to pay the bills of the Church? Feed the priests? Health care? Insurance? You think the money is going to fall from the sky? In the most recent documentary I saw of the Vatican you current Pope revealed at interview that the Vatican is run like a major industry, directly employing within the immediate vicinity one million registered Vatican employees. That is before even considering further afield and indeed in some 128(?) countries abroad. Money is sucked in like there's no tomorrow! It is massively overstaffed. In answer to your question about who should feed them ... it's a strange question considering the wealth already amassed within the Vatican walls. They could sell off a lot of that stuff so that people outside can get to enjoy it too ... not just the Pope and his inner circle. The money could be invested wisely and the interest used to run the industry. That's not the whole answer but it's a start along more ethical lines in which the money could start flowing back towards those who gave it and need it and also pay wages and running costs. It was an ABSOLUTE blessing for you to go to the Vatican, if you really did. I wish I could go. Feeding the poor is NOT the primary mission of the Church. The worship of God is and helping in the salvation of souls. I don't think one bit that the Catholic Church should "break itself" for the poor....especially when Jesus Himself said you will always have the poor. Their will always be poor people no matter what you do. No matter how much you give. Yes I certainly did tour the Vatican and can speak first hand. It was more an eye-opener than a blessing. I know whereof I speak. The fact that there will always be the Poor is no excuse for sapping their resources further. That is illogical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Faithful Catholic Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 But not on the rapacious scale seen today. The Church wasn't even BORN yet until PENTECOST!!!! Come on Jon. Child's play. ELEMENTARY. I would rather trust my own observation than have to count my fingers after shaking hands with a Priest who professes to observe for me. That priest has HOLY ORDERS, you don't. You mean you don't know of those many countries in which if Parishioners are not in Church they are gathered at ritualistic and idolatrous parades through streets of towns and villages celebrating some saint or other, or some Church festival? Where there is some Saint's Day for every day of the year and most are celebrated. The time and energy spent in religious carnivals and festivals would do wonders for lifting those folk out of poverty if instead it were spent in the fields or at the factory bench. Truth is they are kept too busy with showy devotions to come up for air and question what it's really all about. Jesus DID NOT build His Church on Peter to feed the POOR. Where did you get that crazy idea from? In the most recent documentary I saw of the Vatican you current Pope revealed at interview that the Vatican is run like a major industry, directly employing within the immediate vicinity one million registered Vatican employees. What a load of garbage! Can you fit ONE million people in 108 ACRES of LAND? Put down the Old Grand Dad! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_City That is before even considering further afield and indeed in some 128(?) countries abroad. Money is sucked in like there's no tomorrow! It is massively overstaffed. In answer to your question about who should feed them ... it's a strange question considering the wealth already amassed within the Vatican walls. They could sell off a lot of that stuff so that people outside can get to enjoy it too ... not just the Pope and his inner circle. The money could be invested wisely and the interest used to run the industry. That's not the whole answer but it's a start along more ethical lines in which the money could start flowing back towards those who gave it and need it and also pay wages and running costs. You are out of your mind, Jon. The money the Vatican has is from DONATIONS! Yes I certainly did tour the Vatican and can speak first hand. It was more an eye-opener than a blessing. I know whereof I speak. The fact that there will always be the Poor is no excuse for sapping their resources further. That is illogical. Are you telling me, AFC, that the Lord is illogical? Straitjacket...Anybody??????? :lol: :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 The Church wasn't even BORN yet until PENTECOST!!!! Come on Jon. Child's play. ELEMENTARY.(non-sequitur) That priest has HOLY ORDERS, you don't.(non-sequitur) Jesus DID NOT build His Church on Peter to feed the POOR. Where did you get that crazy idea from?(non-sequitur) What a load of garbage! Can you fit ONE million people in 108 ACRES of LAND? Put down the Old Grand Dad! (Read again. "directly employing within the immediate vicinity one million registered Vatican employees". The "one-million" came out of Pope Benedict's mouth also. Take it up with him). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_City You are out of your mind, Jon. The money the Vatican has is from DONATIONS!(non-sequitur) Are you telling me, AFC, that the Lord is illogical? Straitjacket...Anybody??????? (non-sequitur) So many sidesteps in just one post! Your legs must be plaited by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Faithful Catholic Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 So many sidesteps in just one post! Your legs must be plaited by now. side steps = Truth you can't attack. I got it now! :lol: :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 side steps = Truth you can't attack. I got it now! :lol: :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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