Is it cheating?

[Guest Guest]

Oh...thats odd, I do EVERYTHING sexually even more so than before we were married. I'm a woman in my prime. I put a pole in my bedroom, I have a closet full of "toys", I make videos of what I do, I have a collection of langerie...and I have been featured in a risque' calendar. Why would he look elsewhere? Oh yeah thats right... I'm sick and tired of the lack of his performance. He cant keep up with me..literally.

 

call me - we can work something out

[Guest Guest]

call me - we can work something out

 

You got it...I just hope your over 21 and not a miserable d1ck...I'm done with that sh!t.

[Guest Guest]

You got it...I just hope your over 21 and not a miserable d1ck...I'm done with that sh!t.

 

Just dont fall in love with me - that's all I ask

 

and nope - not a miserable dick and am over 21

 

 

 

[Guest Guest]

Just dont fall in love with me - that's all I ask

 

and nope - not a miserable dick and am over 21

 

Trust me, theres no way in hell I will fall in love with you. (no offense) Just want a little attention and lovin.

[Guest Guest]

Oh...thats odd, I do EVERYTHING sexually even more so than before we were married. I'm a woman in my prime. I put a pole in my bedroom, I have a closet full of "toys", I make videos of what I do, I have a collection of langerie...and I have been featured in a risque' calendar. Why would he look elsewhere? Oh yeah thats right... I'm sick and tired of the lack of his performance. He cant keep up with me..literally.

 

 

Do you write for the Penthouse Forum, too?

[Guest Guest]

Do you write for the Penthouse Forum, too?

 

No, I don't write for the articles, I just do the pictures.

 

[Mouser]

I for one believe its cheating to some extent. My husband spends the majority of his day and night online chatting with other women (but supposedly he's just playing online games). He looks at web-cams and porn sites on a regular basis. He claims he not, but he's too stupid to clear his trail and use a pop up blocker. He chats with these women throughout the day and night more than he talks with me in a month. He's got several different email addys of his own and when he's on his computer, he positions himself and the computer in a corner where nobody can walk by him to see what he's doing. I think if a man is having an online or texting affair, it could lead to a form of physical cheating. Those who are trading pics and chat (explicit one of course) is definately a cheater. If its just for fun, no nudity, no sexual chat, no meeting up...nothing to worry about. But when those factors come into play, you better beware. I just dont understand why these men have to cheat online or over a phone?

 

YOUR ANSWER IS

 

I for one believe its cheating to some extent. My wife spends the majority of her day and night online chatting with other men (but supposedly she's just playing online games). She looks at web-cams and porn sites on a regular basis. She claims she not, but she's too stupid to clear her trail and use a pop up blocker. She chats with these men throughout the day and night more than she talks with me in a month. She's got several different email addys of her own and when she's on her computer, she positions herself and the computer in a corner where nobody can walk by her to see what she's doing. I think if a woman is having an online or texting affair, it could lead to a form of physical cheating. Those who are trading pics and chat (explicit one of course) is definately a cheater. If its just for fun, no nudity, no sexual chat, no meeting up...nothing to worry about. But when those factors come into play, you better beware. I just dont understand why these men have to cheat online or over a phone?

 

And for the last time

 

 

I see this on a daily basis. Either the man or the woman is married, they start a conversation with someone, they claim to be friends so everyone does not know what they are really doing, but WE do. We just don't say anything because we do not want to get involved with your DRAMA. This goes on until they are caught. Both have been caught before by their spouse, but nothing happened so they continue.

 

You both own a nice home, have a couple kids, and have allowed yourselves to become involved in a routine, one that takes time from the home life. Your always in a hurry, going here or there, to this meeting or that one, never having the time for your family until you WANT to because there is no meeting or whatever going on now. You go thru life with blinders on, never looking past what is on your mind until it's to late.

 

You can not help but wonder what you did wrong when you find out. You pass the blame on the spouse. It's their fault. the spouse does not love me. What just because I've gotten involved with activities to consume my time, time that once was spent together. And so what if I've gained a few handle bars and a pot belly. I'm getting older and these things happen with age, it's not like I'm 21 anymore.

 

 

Moral ---> Communication !! Without it, in any relationship / marriage, the above is sure to happen to you. Oh sure, every relationship / marriage has it's ups and downs, good times and bad. Like a bad hair day, you get over it with a comb (communication).

 

For the men ---> When was the last time you sent your spouce/girlfriend flowers for no reason what so ever? When was the last time you open her car door? When was the last time you purchased a NEW outfit for your spouce/girlfriend without it being a special holiday? When was the last time you tried to get involved with one of activities your spouce/girlfriend has?

 

For the women ---> When was the last time you sent your spouse/boyfriend flowers for no reason what so ever? When was the last time you purchased something your spouce/boyfriend wanted? When was the last time you tried to get involved with one of the activites your spouce/boyfriend has?

 

You allowed yourself to get into a routine, and you have no communication. So instead of sitting there feeling sorry for yourself, why not get up and go do something about it?

 

 

 

Signed

 

Mrs Mouser

 

btw- after lunch at Ruby Tuesday's we went to see 10,000BC. IMO it's not all that it's cracked up to be.

[Guest Guest]

IMO yes this is a form of cheating. He is getting gratification in some form elsewhere..Did he ever try to engage in these raunchy texts or exchanges with YOU? He might have just been surprised by your response! This will lead to something further I guarantee it...he will find something so exciting and exhilerating about it and he will be hooked. One day he may even go as far as to live out the fatasy. It happens..believe me.

[Guest Guest]

YOUR ANSWER IS

 

I for one believe its cheating to some extent. My wife spends the majority of her day and night online chatting with other men (but supposedly she's just playing online games). She looks at web-cams and porn sites on a regular basis. She claims she not, but she's too stupid to clear her trail and use a pop up blocker. She chats with these men throughout the day and night more than she talks with me in a month. She's got several different email addys of her own and when she's on her computer, she positions herself and the computer in a corner where nobody can walk by her to see what she's doing. I think if a woman is having an online or texting affair, it could lead to a form of physical cheating. Those who are trading pics and chat (explicit one of course) is definately a cheater. If its just for fun, no nudity, no sexual chat, no meeting up...nothing to worry about. But when those factors come into play, you better beware. I just dont understand why these men have to cheat online or over a phone?

 

And for the last time

 

 

I see this on a daily basis. Either the man or the woman is married, they start a conversation with someone, they claim to be friends so everyone does not know what they are really doing, but WE do. We just don't say anything because we do not want to get involved with your DRAMA. This goes on until they are caught. Both have been caught before by their spouse, but nothing happened so they continue.

 

You both own a nice home, have a couple kids, and have allowed yourselves to become involved in a routine, one that takes time from the home life. Your always in a hurry, going here or there, to this meeting or that one, never having the time for your family until you WANT to because there is no meeting or whatever going on now. You go thru life with blinders on, never looking past what is on your mind until it's to late.

 

You can not help but wonder what you did wrong when you find out. You pass the blame on the spouse. It's their fault. the spouse does not love me. What just because I've gotten involved with activities to consume my time, time that once was spent together. And so what if I've gained a few handle bars and a pot belly. I'm getting older and these things happen with age, it's not like I'm 21 anymore.

 

 

Moral ---> Communication !! Without it, in any relationship / marriage, the above is sure to happen to you. Oh sure, every relationship / marriage has it's ups and downs, good times and bad. Like a bad hair day, you get over it with a comb (communication).

 

For the men ---> When was the last time you sent your spouce/girlfriend flowers for no reason what so ever? When was the last time you open her car door? When was the last time you purchased a NEW outfit for your spouce/girlfriend without it being a special holiday? When was the last time you tried to get involved with one of activities your spouce/girlfriend has?

 

For the women ---> When was the last time you sent your spouse/boyfriend flowers for no reason what so ever? When was the last time you purchased something your spouce/boyfriend wanted? When was the last time you tried to get involved with one of the activites your spouce/boyfriend has?

 

You allowed yourself to get into a routine, and you have no communication. So instead of sitting there feeling sorry for yourself, why not get up and go do something about it?

 

 

 

Signed

 

Mrs Mouser

 

btw- after lunch at Ruby Tuesday's we went to see 10,000BC. IMO it's not all that it's cracked up to be.

 

Mouser, ITA with some of things you have typed, but as a woman who has been married for 15 years...what happens if your husband does not like flowers? What happens when I do watch sports every weekend with him, and help him work on his cars or do anything with him that interests him, and he still sh!ts on me? He doesnt partake in anything I enjoy doing. I give my paycheck to him each week, I'm not allowed to spend $20 of it. But he spends all of his and mine on nothing but crap. Have you ever been married? Do you know exactly what marriage involves? Unless you have been in this kind of situation like alot of us women are, you need to get your facts straight. We dont sit around feeling sorry for ourselves, this is reality. Not all of us can still be living at home with mommy and daddy and have no worries. Try getting out there in the real world, then you might see how things really are in relationships. But I respect your opinion.

 

[Guest dr. phil]

YOUR ANSWER IS

 

I for one believe its cheating to some extent. My wife spends the majority of her day and night online chatting with other men (but supposedly she's just playing online games). She looks at web-cams and porn sites on a regular basis. She claims she not, but she's too stupid to clear her trail and use a pop up blocker. She chats with these men throughout the day and night more than she talks with me in a month. She's got several different email addys of her own and when she's on her computer, she positions herself and the computer in a corner where nobody can walk by her to see what she's doing. I think if a woman is having an online or texting affair, it could lead to a form of physical cheating. Those who are trading pics and chat (explicit one of course) is definately a cheater. If its just for fun, no nudity, no sexual chat, no meeting up...nothing to worry about. But when those factors come into play, you better beware. I just dont understand why these men have to cheat online or over a phone?

 

And for the last time

 

 

I see this on a daily basis. Either the man or the woman is married, they start a conversation with someone, they claim to be friends so everyone does not know what they are really doing, but WE do. We just don't say anything because we do not want to get involved with your DRAMA. This goes on until they are caught. Both have been caught before by their spouse, but nothing happened so they continue.

 

You both own a nice home, have a couple kids, and have allowed yourselves to become involved in a routine, one that takes time from the home life. Your always in a hurry, going here or there, to this meeting or that one, never having the time for your family until you WANT to because there is no meeting or whatever going on now. You go thru life with blinders on, never looking past what is on your mind until it's to late.

 

You can not help but wonder what you did wrong when you find out. You pass the blame on the spouse. It's their fault. the spouse does not love me. What just because I've gotten involved with activities to consume my time, time that once was spent together. And so what if I've gained a few handle bars and a pot belly. I'm getting older and these things happen with age, it's not like I'm 21 anymore.

 

 

Moral ---> Communication !! Without it, in any relationship / marriage, the above is sure to happen to you. Oh sure, every relationship / marriage has it's ups and downs, good times and bad. Like a bad hair day, you get over it with a comb (communication).

 

For the men ---> When was the last time you sent your spouce/girlfriend flowers for no reason what so ever? When was the last time you open her car door? When was the last time you purchased a NEW outfit for your spouce/girlfriend without it being a special holiday? When was the last time you tried to get involved with one of activities your spouce/girlfriend has?

 

For the women ---> When was the last time you sent your spouse/boyfriend flowers for no reason what so ever? When was the last time you purchased something your spouce/boyfriend wanted? When was the last time you tried to get involved with one of the activites your spouce/boyfriend has?

 

You allowed yourself to get into a routine, and you have no communication. So instead of sitting there feeling sorry for yourself, why not get up and go do something about it?

 

 

 

Signed

 

Mrs Mouser

 

btw- after lunch at Ruby Tuesday's we went to see 10,000BC. IMO it's not all that it's cracked up to be.

 

 

are you a relationship expert? you sound more like a sanctimonious jerk to me.

[Guest Guest]

What happens when I do watch sports every weekend with him, and help him work on his cars or do anything with him that interests him, and he still sh!ts on me? He doesnt partake in anything I enjoy doing. I give my paycheck to him each week, I'm not allowed to spend $20 of it. But he spends all of his and mine on nothing but crap.

 

 

If this is all true, you are married to someone with severe control issues and you have caved in. He's really playing the Daddy in your marriage.

 

He takes all your money?

 

Severe control.

 

You can't have even $20?

 

Severe control.

 

He spends all your $ as he chooses.

 

Severe control.

 

 

You'd been better off staying with your parents. You'd have more spending $.

[Guest Guest]

If this is all true, you are married to someone with severe control issues and you have caved in. He's really playing the Daddy in your marriage.

 

He takes all your money?

 

Severe control.

 

You can't have even $20?

 

Severe control.

 

He spends all your $ as he chooses.

 

Severe control.

 

 

You'd been better off staying with your parents. You'd have more spending $.

 

Trust me, I know hes a control freak, and staying with my parents is not an option. I'm sick of giving and taking and having him be this this way.

[Guest yessir]

IMO yes this is a form of cheating. He is getting gratification in some form elsewhere..Did he ever try to engage in these raunchy texts or exchanges with YOU? He might have just been surprised by your response! This will lead to something further I guarantee it...he will find something so exciting and exhilerating about it and he will be hooked. One day he may even go as far as to live out the fatasy. It happens..believe me.

 

Same exact thing happened to me with my bf and YES IT IS CHEATING and yes he will take the next step if he hasnt already.

[Guest loser]

Oh...thats odd, I do EVERYTHING sexually even more so than before we were married. I'm a woman in my prime. I put a pole in my bedroom, I have a closet full of "toys", I make videos of what I do, I have a collection of langerie...and I have been featured in a risque' calendar. Why would he look elsewhere? Oh yeah thats right... I'm sick and tired of the lack of his performance. He cant keep up with me..literally.

 

 

 

if you ever fall back into your old ways, let me know. i would be happy to dissappoint you physically and get you back into your comfort zone. it's what i do.

[Guest Guest]

Trust me, I know hes a control freak, and staying with my parents is not an option. I'm sick of giving and taking and having him be this this way.

 

 

I can guarantee you he won't change on his own, if you're waiting for it to happen.

 

The only way he'll ever change is if some life shattering situation occurs to him, and even then, most control freaks still don't change.

 

Good luck with that jackhole.

[2pelo Honey]

I put a pole in my bedroom

 

[Guest mr. joyce brothers]

Mouser, ITA with some of things you have typed, but as a woman who has been married for 15 years...what happens if your husband does not like flowers? What happens when I do watch sports every weekend with him, and help him work on his cars or do anything with him that interests him, and he still sh!ts on me? He doesnt partake in anything I enjoy doing. I give my paycheck to him each week, I'm not allowed to spend $20 of it. But he spends all of his and mine on nothing but crap. Have you ever been married? Do you know exactly what marriage involves? Unless you have been in this kind of situation like alot of us women are, you need to get your facts straight. We dont sit around feeling sorry for ourselves, this is reality. Not all of us can still be living at home with mommy and daddy and have no worries. Try getting out there in the real world, then you might see how things really are in relationships. But I respect your opinion.

 

 

 

you are mrs. professional victim. i have no sympathy for you whatsoever. he's a jerk. LEAVE HIM. now is when you tell me the 10 million excuses you can't leave. friends, family and shelters will help you like they have millions of other women. take charge and quit whining. will it be hard, yes. 2 yrs from now you will consider it to be the greatest move you ever made. what's the alternative, stay with a jerk? if you choose that option then quit whining and complaining. there's plenty of other victims that are willing to take a risk and leave. children should never be raised in your current environment. if you won't save yourself, save them. (if you have kids at home) act like an adult.

 

[Mouser]

Mouser, ITA with some of things you have typed, but as a woman who has been married for 15 years...what happens if your husband does not like flowers? What happens when I do watch sports every weekend with him, and help him work on his cars or do anything with him that interests him, and he still sh!ts on me? He doesnt partake in anything I enjoy doing. I give my paycheck to him each week, I'm not allowed to spend $20 of it. But he spends all of his and mine on nothing but crap. Have you ever been married? Do you know exactly what marriage involves? Unless you have been in this kind of situation like alot of us women are, you need to get your facts straight. We dont sit around feeling sorry for ourselves, this is reality. Not all of us can still be living at home with mommy and daddy and have no worries. Try getting out there in the real world, then you might see how things really are in relationships. But I respect your opinion.

 

 

I guess you did not take notice who signed that message ---> Mrs. Mouser

 

Married? Yes for over 18 and been with hubby for over 22 years. We raised his two children from his first marriage that he had SOLE custody of and my two children from my first marriage that I had SOLE custody of. We've seen friends and family seperate due to lack of open communication and allowing themselves to get into a routine.

Work? Yes we both work and yes we have both worked, even when raising the children.

Honey I know what makes a marriage strong and secure.

$20? I might suggest that you open your own checking account and have your check directly deposited, and make sure you PAY YOURSELF FIRST for working ( pocket money ). If your not rewarding yourself for working, then it's not worth it and makes you feel worthless. Although if you have been with him for a period of time, then it most likely will not happen because you've allowed yourself to be controlled. My brother had a wife the same way. Controlling. They split after 14 years and it was the third time around for them, and it had nothing to do with money or "the other woman/man" either.

 

I can understand a man not liking flowers, NOT. It's a macho thing with men!

 

 

Don't tell me that you can't enjoy each other either because you have kids and can't afford it. That is nothing more then an excuse. When we first met each other we were just making enough to live week to week. When we started to live together, we opened a joint account, keeping our own seperate accounts. We figured out what our bills were, and each put in equal shares. Paid all household bills from the joint account. I was totally not happy with my job so my husband, while all 4 kids were still at home, took on a second job and put me through college to get my degree in accounting. I got a very good job locally and then helped put him through for his engineering degree in electrical. He also got a good job locally. Even with all that was going on, we still managed to get away without the kids to spend time together---ALONE!

Hard work, open communication and no routine. That's how.

 

Trust me, 25 years ago I was lazy, wanted everything handed to me and wanted someone else to blame for my ways. It surely was not handed to me, and NOW I do not take anything for granted. We, at any given time, could be plucked from this earth with our last breath just as fast as we started breathing when we were born.

 

So YES, I know EXACTLY what a MARRIAGE involves !

 

Why are you having this problem with your husband? Partly because you allow it. Being there, is not the same as being there! Know what I mean? No? Just because your there watching sports or whatever, does not mean you are there. If you don't enjoy it, then don't do it.

 

This thread is about cheating men and women. There are thousands of reasons why a marriage does not work, there are a thousand reasons why people cheat on their spouce/girlfriend/boyfriend. If you do not keep the lines of communication open, and I mean open on both sides not one sided, then you will have problems. If you allow yourself to get into a routine doing the same old same old, you will have problems. You and yours need to spend QUALITY time together without and distractions (kids-friends-family) There is no such thing as Can't.

 

How do you look at it? Is the glass half empty or half full?

 

 

 

 

[Guest eharmony]

I guess you did not take notice who signed that message ---> Mrs. Mouser

 

Married? Yes for over 18 and been with hubby for over 22 years. We raised his two children from his first marriage that he had SOLE custody of and my two children from my first marriage that I had SOLE custody of. We've seen friends and family seperate due to lack of open communication and allowing themselves to get into a routine.

Work? Yes we both work and yes we have both worked, even when raising the children.

Honey I know what makes a marriage strong and secure.

$20? I might suggest that you open your own checking account and have your check directly deposited, and make sure you PAY YOURSELF FIRST for working ( pocket money ). If your not rewarding yourself for working, then it's not worth it and makes you feel worthless. Although if you have been with him for a period of time, then it most likely will not happen because you've allowed yourself to be controlled. My brother had a wife the same way. Controlling. They split after 14 years and it was the third time around for them, and it had nothing to do with money or "the other woman/man" either.

 

I can understand a man not liking flowers, NOT. It's a macho thing with men!

 

 

Don't tell me that you can't enjoy each other either because you have kids and can't afford it. That is nothing more then an excuse. When we first met each other we were just making enough to live week to week. When we started to live together, we opened a joint account, keeping our own seperate accounts. We figured out what our bills were, and each put in equal shares. Paid all household bills from the joint account. I was totally not happy with my job so my husband, while all 4 kids were still at home, took on a second job and put me through college to get my degree in accounting. I got a very good job locally and then helped put him through for his engineering degree in electrical. He also got a good job locally. Even with all that was going on, we still managed to get away without the kids to spend time together---ALONE!

Hard work, open communication and no routine. That's how.

 

Trust me, 25 years ago I was lazy, wanted everything handed to me and wanted someone else to blame for my ways. It surely was not handed to me, and NOW I do not take anything for granted. We, at any given time, could be plucked from this earth with our last breath just as fast as we started breathing when we were born.

 

So YES, I know EXACTLY what a MARRIAGE involves !

 

Why are you having this problem with your husband? Partly because you allow it. Being there, is not the same as being there! Know what I mean? No? Just because your there watching sports or whatever, does not mean you are there. If you don't enjoy it, then don't do it.

 

This thread is about cheating men and women. There are thousands of reasons why a marriage does not work, there are a thousand reasons why people cheat on their spouce/girlfriend/boyfriend. If you do not keep the lines of communication open, and I mean open on both sides not one sided, then you will have problems. If you allow yourself to get into a routine doing the same old same old, you will have problems. You and yours need to spend QUALITY time together without and distractions (kids-friends-family) There is no such thing as Can't.

 

How do you look at it? Is the glass half empty or half full?

 

 

 

wow, that last line is pretty deep. i've never heard that before. that's going to change her life.

[Guest Guest]

I guess you did not take notice who signed that message ---> Mrs. Mouser

 

Married? Yes for over 18 and been with hubby for over 22 years. We raised his two children from his first marriage that he had SOLE custody of and my two children from my first marriage that I had SOLE custody of. We've seen friends and family seperate due to lack of open communication and allowing themselves to get into a routine.

Work? Yes we both work and yes we have both worked, even when raising the children.

Honey I know what makes a marriage strong and secure.

$20? I might suggest that you open your own checking account and have your check directly deposited, and make sure you PAY YOURSELF FIRST for working ( pocket money ). If your not rewarding yourself for working, then it's not worth it and makes you feel worthless. Although if you have been with him for a period of time, then it most likely will not happen because you've allowed yourself to be controlled. My brother had a wife the same way. Controlling. They split after 14 years and it was the third time around for them, and it had nothing to do with money or "the other woman/man" either.

 

I can understand a man not liking flowers, NOT. It's a macho thing with men!

 

 

Don't tell me that you can't enjoy each other either because you have kids and can't afford it. That is nothing more then an excuse. When we first met each other we were just making enough to live week to week. When we started to live together, we opened a joint account, keeping our own seperate accounts. We figured out what our bills were, and each put in equal shares. Paid all household bills from the joint account. I was totally not happy with my job so my husband, while all 4 kids were still at home, took on a second job and put me through college to get my degree in accounting. I got a very good job locally and then helped put him through for his engineering degree in electrical. He also got a good job locally. Even with all that was going on, we still managed to get away without the kids to spend time together---ALONE!

Hard work, open communication and no routine. That's how.

 

Trust me, 25 years ago I was lazy, wanted everything handed to me and wanted someone else to blame for my ways. It surely was not handed to me, and NOW I do not take anything for granted. We, at any given time, could be plucked from this earth with our last breath just as fast as we started breathing when we were born.

 

So YES, I know EXACTLY what a MARRIAGE involves !

 

Why are you having this problem with your husband? Partly because you allow it. Being there, is not the same as being there! Know what I mean? No? Just because your there watching sports or whatever, does not mean you are there. If you don't enjoy it, then don't do it.

 

This thread is about cheating men and women. There are thousands of reasons why a marriage does not work, there are a thousand reasons why people cheat on their spouce/girlfriend/boyfriend. If you do not keep the lines of communication open, and I mean open on both sides not one sided, then you will have problems. If you allow yourself to get into a routine doing the same old same old, you will have problems. You and yours need to spend QUALITY time together without and distractions (kids-friends-family) There is no such thing as Can't.

 

How do you look at it? Is the glass half empty or half full?

 

Mouser...thank you for all of this input. I didnt realize you have been married that long, guess you know where I'm coming from. I will definately heed your advice. Guess my glass has always been empty, no half this or half that. Think my husband is going through some mid life male menopausel thing lately where it brings me down along with him.

Thanks again for your input, it actually helped.

 

[Guest Guest]

you are mrs. professional victim. i have no sympathy for you whatsoever. he's a jerk. LEAVE HIM. now is when you tell me the 10 million excuses you can't leave. friends, family and shelters will help you like they have millions of other women. take charge and quit whining. will it be hard, yes. 2 yrs from now you will consider it to be the greatest move you ever made. what's the alternative, stay with a jerk? if you choose that option then quit whining and complaining. there's plenty of other victims that are willing to take a risk and leave. children should never be raised in your current environment. if you won't save yourself, save them. (if you have kids at home) act like an adult.

 

 

Good advice, but I doubt it will be heeded.

I've known many a "professional victim" (and dated a few) and they love to wallow in it.

 

Try to help them by pointing out the painfully obvious, and you get back your 10 million excuses why they can't do this or that, or why it's always someone else's fault or responsibility.

 

I gave up years ago.