My very difficult struggle with Faith

[Guest Guest]

Let me see if I have this right ... You're telling me that any person who wishes to spread the word of God must be completely sinless and and as pure as the driven snow?

 

Who's being naive here?

 

I'll go out on a limb here and say that AFC is human, makes mistakes, sins, uses words some people take offense with and sometimes tries to defend himself when attacked ... satisfied?

 

How does that have any effect on the truths of his Faith?

 

 

With all due respect, you do not have it right.

 

AFC says he is spreading the word of God. I believe he only professes to do so. What he actually spreads is his own bigotry and hate.

 

As far as a sincere person wanting to spread the word of God (and we are clearly not talking about AFC here) -- no, I would not expect that person to be "pure as the driven snow." People are human. It is a person's intentions that separates them from being one who makes mistakes simply because they are human, versus one who intentionally misleads or lies to people. And when it comes to someone representing a faith and trying to lead others, I think that person's intention and their integrity are very important.

 

Anyone can quote religious passages. However, that does not make them a devout person. As we have seen throughout history, and including today, many evil people quote passages from their religion to denigrate and sometimes even hurt other people. Remaining silent against these people have not usually served humanity well.

 

 

 

[Guest Guest]

Oh, oh... AFC just came into the room. Run! Run! Before your ears start bleeding!

[Guest Guest]

With all due respect, you do not have it right.

 

AFC says he is spreading the word of God. I believe he only professes to do so. What he actually spreads is his own bigotry and hate.

 

As far as a sincere person wanting to spread the word of God (and we are clearly not talking about AFC here) -- no, I would not expect that person to be "pure as the driven snow." People are human. It is a person's intentions that separates them from being one who makes mistakes simply because they are human, versus one who intentionally misleads or lies to people. And when it comes to someone representing a faith and trying to lead others, I think that person's intention and their integrity are very important.

 

Anyone can quote religious passages. However, that does not make them a devout person. As we have seen throughout history, and including today, many evil people quote passages from their religion to denigrate and sometimes even hurt other people. Remaining silent against these people have not usually served humanity well.

:P :P

 

 

 

[Bee]

Isn't it possible that other's on BC Voice might also have had similar experiences to mine? If so, maybe I could learn someting from them. Maybe they've learned something helpful somewhere, that could help me in my quest for peace. It's possible, isn't it?

Original Poster

I do think that your struggle is not unique. I don't know anyone who has not searched or questioned the nature of existence. I love the book The Seat Of The Soul by Gary Zukav and am currently reading A New Earth: Awakening to your life's purpose by Eckhart Tolle. I believe that we are spiritual beings having a human experience, much beyond mind and body.

[Uncle Geo]

With all due respect, you do not have it right.

 

AFC says he is spreading the word of God. I believe he only professes to do so. What he actually spreads is his own bigotry and hate.

 

As far as a sincere person wanting to spread the word of God (and we are clearly not talking about AFC here) -- no, I would not expect that person to be "pure as the driven snow." People are human. It is a person's intentions that separates them from being one who makes mistakes simply because they are human, versus one who intentionally misleads or lies to people. And when it comes to someone representing a faith and trying to lead others, I think that person's intention and their integrity are very important.

 

Anyone can quote religious passages. However, that does not make them a devout person. As we have seen throughout history, and including today, many evil people quote passages from their religion to denigrate and sometimes even hurt other people. Remaining silent against these people have not usually served humanity well.

 

First of all let me say that I appreciate your civility in your attempt to explain your position. However, I believe your convictions regarding AFC are being colored by an intense personal dislike towards him.

 

After reading many of his postings I fail to find where his utterances on Faith or Morals could be considered bigoted of hateful. If you wish, feel free to give examples.

 

Additionally, how do you judge what AFC's intentions are? What are the intentional lies he spews? Remember, I'm talking about Faith statements here, not quibbling whether a word was used in malice or by mistake.

 

Lastly, please give me any example of a passage from AFC's statement on his religion that denigrates or hurts anyone.

[Guest Guest]

First of all let me say that I appreciate your civility in your attempt to explain your position. However, I believe your convictions regarding AFC are being colored by an intense personal dislike towards him.

 

After reading many of his postings I fail to find where his utterances on Faith or Morals could be considered bigoted of hateful. If you wish, feel free to give examples.

 

Additionally, how do you judge what AFC's intentions are? What are the intentional lies he spews? Remember, I'm talking about Faith statements here, not quibbling whether a word was used in malice or by mistake.

 

Lastly, please give me any example of a passage from AFC's statement on his religion that denigrates or hurts anyone.

 

 

 

Actually, I am glad to see you have returned Uncle Geo. I hope you have been reading AFC's most recent posts he made today.

 

Yes, I dislike AFC immensely. But not because he is Catholic, and not because of any quotes he posts from religious materials. I dislike him - actually, I abhor him. because his posts are layered with hatred and disdain for other people's religions. I can appreciate you wanting me to sift through his posts and provide you with examples. However, I am sure you can appreciate my not having the desire to spend my time pulling up and re-typing specific quotes. And quite frankly, one example -- his continuous usage of referring to Protestants as "prots" - is not even contested by himself. If you do not agree with me that continuously using a term that is known to be offensive to those of a different faith is a good example of bigotry, then we would both be wasting our time reviewing the numerous other examples.

 

Regarding his intentions -- after reading his posts, I have no doubt his intentions are not honest. Again, I refer you to carefully read the Ash Wednesday thread, beginning around Page 10. I am not being sarcastic when I suggest you read it slowly and pay close attention to when AFC starts to try cloud the issue by talking about a word no one even accused him of using instead of answering a direct question that was repeatedly asked of him.

 

Today, when it was suggested that he treats people of other faiths with disrespect, his response was complete acknowledgment and the recommendation that others should do the same. Please read this for yourself. (He subsequently back peddled and tried to convince readers that it is the "belief" not the "people" he disrespects.) Tell me, assuming you are a Christian (as I am), is this someone you would want to encourage and support? A person that ENCOURAGES people to disrespect people of other faiths?

 

Now, today, he states he never used the word "mooslims" in any other context except in historical reference to those who persecuted Christian pilgrims. An example of where he clearly was referencing current Muslims as "mooslims" was provided and his response was to still deny it. The following is his exact quote from the Ash Wednesday thread -- Post 199. I should preface this by explaining that this response was in response to Jon questioning why AFC continuously uses the word "prots." It is not - as AFC has suggested today, in response to discussion about Muslims attacking Christian pilgrims. (I encourage you to verify this yourself, by reading the posts previous to #199.)

 

Post 199

 

AFC: "Jon. I don't care. It is not a term I use repeatedly all the time." (My note -- again, this is in reply to his use of "prots.") "This issue is trivial to say the very least. As well as that mooslim crap brought up before. BIG DEAL. Those throat cutters DENY the DIVINITY of Christ.l What I say will PALE in comparison to what they will face in front of Jesus and His condemnation of them."

 

 

Now, one can say -- ok, AFC uses the word "mooslims." So, what? First, in case anyone hates Muslims and thinks it is great to mock them, remember -- that is not the issue. AFC has stated he has ONLY used the word in reference to historical Muslims who persecuted Christian pilgrims. This is an important fact, because AFC is adamant he has not used the word except for referencing that part of history. Even after being given the specific post referenced above, he still claims this quote was in reference to history. So, my question to you is, when you read the post above, seeing it is in response to the word "prots", why is AFC bringing up the "crap" about his use of the word "mooslim", and why is he referring to them in the present tense? "Those throat cutters DENY..." The word deny implies someone who is currently denying. And the next portion of the quote -- "...in comparison to what they will face in front of Jesus..."

Hmmm... if AFC is talking about Muslims in the past, why is it they haven't faced Jesus yet -- but they "will" some day.

 

My point is this --AFC is entitled to hate whoever he wants. He is entitled to believe his faith is the only true one. And he is certainly entitled to state so accordingly. However, I also have a right - if not a moral obligation - to not sit idly by while he spews his hate and in conjunction with that, I will not hesitate to point out his lies.

 

If you still feel differently about him, that is your choice and I honestly do not judge you for that. But having explained the basis for my feelings about him , I would hope you afford me the same respect I afford to you of having a different opinion of him.

[Guest original poster]

I do think that your struggle is not unique. I don't know anyone who has not searched or questioned the nature of existence. I love the book The Seat Of The Soul by Gary Zukav and am currently reading A New Earth: Awakening to your life's purpose by Eckhart Tolle. I believe that we are spiritual beings having a human experience, much beyond mind and body.

 

Thank you for your post, Bee!!

 

Now, do you think that you could comment on my original question?

In Exodus Ch. 20, Verse 5, it says: ".......for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me."

So, if my dad hated (or perhaps only did not love) our God, could that tie in with the Bible verse that I just quoted and therefore could be at least a partial explanation for my believing difficulties?

Thanks!

original poster

 

[Guest Guest]

Thank you for your post, Bee!!

 

Now, do you think that you could comment on my original question?

In Exodus Ch. 20, Verse 5, it says: ".......for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me."

So, if my dad hated (or perhaps only did not love) our God, could that tie in with the Bible verse that I just quoted and therefore could be at least a partial explanation for my believing difficulties?

Thanks!

original poster

 

 

Yes. God is a very cruel entity. Even though your father made a bad decision and you had nothing to do with it, God decided to smite you to pay for your father's sin. No matter how hard you try to make it up, even if you were to do works comparable to Mother Teresa, you are stained in the eyes of God.

 

However, if you are willing to climb a mountain and sacrifice a goat, there is a small chance God will be pleased and may forgive you.

 

[A Faithful Catholic]

Actually, I am glad to see you have returned Uncle Geo. I hope you have been reading AFC's most recent posts he made today. Yes, I dislike AFC immensely. But not because he is Catholic, and not because of any quotes he posts from religious materials. I dislike him - actually, I abhor him. because his posts are layered with hatred and disdain for other people's religions. I can appreciate you wanting me to sift through his posts and provide you with examples. However, I am sure you can appreciate my not having the desire to spend my time pulling up and re-typing specific quotes. And quite frankly, one example -- his continuous usage of referring to Protestants as "prots" - is not even contested by himself. If you do not agree with me that continuously using a term that is known to be offensive to those of a different faith is a good example of bigotry, then we would both be wasting our time reviewing the numerous other examples.

 

I have never hated anyone with the hatred you have for me....... Uncle Geo, I'm a target again.... I'm not the one that distorted nor belong to a church that promotes false teachings of the Christian Faith.

Regarding his intentions -- after reading his posts, I have no doubt his intentions are not honest. Again, I refer you to carefully read the Ash Wednesday thread, beginning around Page 10. I am not being sarcastic when I suggest you read it slowly and pay close attention to when AFC starts to try cloud the issue by talking about a word no one even accused him of using instead of answering a direct question that was repeatedly asked of him.

 

I spelled a word wrong. It was UNINTENTIONAL. You are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. You are just upset that I reveal false teachings of some "churches"

 

Today, when it was suggested that he treats people of other faiths with disrespect, his response was complete acknowledgment and the recommendation that others should do the same. Please read this for yourself. (He subsequently back peddled and tried to convince readers that it is the "belief" not the "people" he disrespects.) Tell me, assuming you are a Christian (as I am), is this someone you would want to encourage and support? A person that ENCOURAGES people to disrespect people of other faiths?

 

Stop lying. This is the quote:

 

"AFC is extremely judgmental and disrespectful of others' religious beliefs."

 

I go after their beliefs!!!! People should attack FALSE BELIEFS. What good is a false belief? :blink:

 

Now, today, he states he never used the word "mooslims" in any other context except in historical reference to those who persecuted Christian pilgrims. An example of where he clearly was referencing current Muslims as "mooslims" was provided and his response was to still deny it. The following is his exact quote from the Ash Wednesday thread -- Post 199. I should preface this by explaining that this response was in response to Jon questioning why AFC continuously uses the word "prots." It is not - as AFC has suggested today, in response to discussion about Muslims attacking Christian pilgrims. (I encourage you to verify this yourself, by reading the posts previous to #199.)

 

Post 199

 

AFC: "Jon. I don't care. It is not a term I use repeatedly all the time." (My note -- again, this is in reply to his use of "prots.")

 

Here is another lie of yours: It was in reply to the word BORE, not prots. READ IT!

 

http://bcvoice.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=98&st=180

"This issue is trivial to say the very least. As well as that mooslim crap brought up before. BIG DEAL. Those throat cutters DENY the DIVINITY of Christ.l What I say will PALE in comparison to what they will face in front of Jesus and His condemnation of them."

 

Now, one can say -- ok, AFC uses the word "mooslims." So, what?

 

To those that attacked Christian Pilgrims. That is a kind word to use for them.

First, in case anyone hates Muslims and thinks it is great to mock them, remember -- that is not the issue.

 

I only dislike those that attacked those pilgrims.

 

AFC has stated he has ONLY used the word in reference to historical Muslims who persecuted Christian pilgrims. This is an important fact, because AFC is adamant he has not used the word except for referencing that part of history. Even after being given the specific post referenced above, he still claims this quote was in reference to history.

 

I only have used the word mooslim in the original statement and those that described it. FACT. It is.

 

So, my question to you is, when you read the post above, seeing it is in response to the word "prots", why is AFC bringing up the "crap" about his use of the word "mooslim", and why is he referring to them in the present tense?

 

If you didn't have to resort to LYING, you wouldn't look so bad. It was in response to the word BORE. Read it yourself.

"Those throat cutters DENY..." The word deny implies someone who is currently denying. And the next portion of the quote -- "...in comparison to what they will face in front of Jesus..."

Hmmm... if AFC is talking about Muslims in the past, why is it they haven't faced Jesus yet -- but they "will" some day. My point is this --AFC is entitled to hate whoever he wants. He is entitled to believe his faith is the only true one. And he is certainly entitled to state so accordingly. However, I also have a right - if not a moral obligation - to not sit idly by while he spews his hate and in conjunction with that, I will not hesitate to point out his lies.

 

I have never said the words some day!!!!!!!!!!!! How many lies can you tell in one POST?

 

"What I say will PALE in comparison to what they will face in front of Jesus and His condemnation of them!"

 

http://bcvoice.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=98&st=180

 

Who was I speaking about? Those people who attacked those PILGRIMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

First of all. ALL muslims deny the Divinity of Jesus Christ. All of them. From start to finish. Those that deny and cut the throats of those pilgrims are the ones I called mooslims.

 

You need to get your facts right and stop lying. :lol: :lol: I just disproved all your lies. I don't hate anyone. I attack false beliefs and doctrines. You certainly hate me. You have no morals at all. It's plain to see.

If you still feel differently about him, that is your choice and I honestly do not judge you for that. But having explained the basis for my feelings about him , I would hope you afford me the same respect I afford to you of having a different opinion of him.

 

They are false feelings and lies.

 

 

You posted a complete JOKE.

[Guest Guest]

Thank you for your post, Bee.

You can see my response just 2 posts above this one.

original poster

[Guest Guest]

I have never hated anyone with the hatred you have for me....... Uncle Geo, I'm a target again.... I'm not the one that distorted nor belong to a church that promotes false teachings of the Christian Faith.

 

 

I spelled a word wrong. It was UNINTENTIONAL. You are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. You are just upset that I reveal false teachings of some "churches"

 

Nice try. We have been over this a million times. You and I, as well as anyone reading the original discussion, know it had nothing to do with you making a typo. Keep repeating the lie, though. You may convince a few who do not bother to read the thread.

 

Stop lying. This is the quote:

 

 

Here is another lie of yours: It was in reply to the word BORE, not prots. READ IT!

 

http://bcvoice.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=98&st=180

 

I did read it. It was in response to the word "prots." But interesting that you stated earlier it was in response to a previous remark to you using the word "mooslims." Scroll back. Now all of a sudden it is in response to "bore?" Interesting. How whether it was in response to "prots" or in response to "bore" makes a difference, is beyond me. Let me know when you come up with a good excuse for that one.

 

 

 

To those that attacked Christian Pilgrims. That is a kind word to use for them.

 

 

I only dislike those that attacked those pilgrims.

 

 

 

I only have used the word mooslim in the original statement and those that described it. FACT. It is.

 

Ummm....again...you are not addressing why you used against current Muslims.

If you didn't have to resort to LYING, you wouldn't look so bad. It was in response to the word BORE. Read it yourself.

 

Ok, we are back to the "bore" thing again, I see. You might as well tell me you were responding to "pineapples." And then you can explain why you making statements against current Muslims and then denying it has anything to do with "bore."

 

 

I have never said the words some day!!!!!!!!!!!! How many lies can you tell in one POST?

 

Please point out where I said you used the words "some day." Seriously, are you drinking tonight?

 

"What I say will PALE in comparison to what they will face in front of Jesus and His condemnation of them!"

 

Exactly. "What they WILL face in front of Jesus." We finally agree on something. Yes, this is what you said.

Now, work with me here -- if you are talking about dead people -- since according to you, you NEVER have called anyone "mooslims" except those who attacked Christian pilgrims during the Crusades, who were you referring to as "mooslims" when you said they "will" face Jesus? How many years does it take for these long-dead people to face Jesus? Or will you finally admit you were talking about all Muslims -not just the long ago dead ones?

 

http://bcvoice.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=98&st=180

 

Who was I speaking about? Those people who attacked those PILGRIMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

But they have been dead for awhile, haven't they? So why did you say they "deny" --- instead of "they denied" the existence of Jesus? Why did you say they "will" face Jesus and have to account to Him?

 

First of all. ALL muslims deny the Divinity of Jesus Christ. All of them. From start to finish. Those that deny and cut the throats of those pilgrims are the ones I called mooslims.

 

I'm not arguing whether Muslims deny Jesus. But the fact that you place the two sentences above together, side by side, probably explains why you clearly were referring to all Muslims as "mooslims" in the post referenced. Why do you refuse to admit it?

 

You need to get your facts right and stop lying. :lol: :lol: I just disproved all your lies. I don't hate anyone. I attack false beliefs and doctrines. You certainly hate me. You have no morals at all. It's plain to see.

 

 

You didn't disprove a single thing. You may be able to fool a few people here with your lame attempts at smoke and mirrors, but not most of us, and certainly not me.

 

Why did you use the present tense to describe "mooslims." It is a simple question, and yet, you continually refuse to anser it.

 

 

You are definitely not a Christian. You may attend mass. You may be good at regurgitating memorized religious passages and cutting and pasting them here. But you are a perfect example of what a Christian is not!