Guest Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Who wrote that? Not Jesus. His Spirit inspired it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 His Spirit inspired it. Plus it was witnessed by those who were there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Human fallibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Human fallibility. Not when it comes to the Word of God, which is perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Then why the cheap shot? You're the Zealot, not me. Given that, it seemed a valid question. You act as though the protestants are some kind of innocent figures in history.....wrong. They are responsible for much killing. Besides, it was the CHURCH OF ENGLAND that killed those Catholic Martyrs in England, ordered by Henry the VIII, the first leader of it. It was the French government that killed those people in France. It's always the same with you AFC, whenever the CC commits atrocities it's not the Church ... it's "the Government". There's probably an entire floor in the Vatican Law Building devoted to blame-shifting. They've got it down pat. Both sides of the Christian Divide have blood on their hands, granted. But equally? You apparently don't know what you are talking about in that snide remark. Of course I don't! So? "Enlighten" me! I'm offering you a free kick, AFC. Don't waste it ... it doesn't happen often. @ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Not when it comes to the Word of God, which is perfect. Written by humans makes it no longer perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Written by humans makes it no longer perfect. According to YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 According to YOU. Humans are fallible or not? @ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ron Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 The faith is perfect. The people are not. Besides more kids have been molested in protestant "ecclesial communities" than the Catholic Church. No matter how bad some of the people get, you can never take away the Catholic Church's Divine Foundation on Pentecost 33 AD, by Christ Himself. Why would I leave the Church founded by Christ? The first church was the Church of Acts. Christ had already went to heaven. Read Acts and you'll see what I mean. Jesus never "founded" a church...He was the church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 You're the Zealot, not me. Given that, it seemed a valid question.� Not a zealot. Just a faithful Catholic. It's always the same with you AFC, whenever the CC commits atrocities it's not the Church ... it's "the Government". There's probably an entire floor in the Vatican Law Building devoted to blame-shifting. They've got it down pat. We have gone over this before and you don't seem to get it. Only one person can act and speak for the entire 1.3 BILLION Catholics: The Pope. Example: If I went on a killing spree killing protestants, it wasn't the act of the Catholic Church, even though I am Catholic. I have have no authority in the Church. Likewise governments. Both sides of the Christian Divide have blood on their hands, granted. But equally?� Was it the Church or heads of State that were Catholics who had little tolerance for people attacking the Lord's Church within there respective countries? Can Catholic Monarchs act in the Name of the Church? No. Of course I don't! So? "Enlighten" me! I'm offering you a free kick, AFC. Don't waste it ... it doesn't happen often. The puffs of white or black smoke are just signals to what biblical practices that are taking place within the Sistine Chapel. Free kick? Hardly. @ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 The first church was the Church of Acts. What? Acts is a book. Christ had already went to heaven. Not true. He spent 40 days after the Resurrection with His disciples. Read Acts and you'll see what I mean. I suggest you do, especially the part about PENTECOST. lol Jesus never "founded" a church... What?: Matthew 16:18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it." Peter was the first Shepard of the Lord's Church on earth and it's foundation was on Pentecost, 33 AD, in the Upper Room in Jerusalem. He was the church. 805 The Church is the Body of Christ. Through the Spirit and his action in the sacraments, above all the Eucharist, Christ, who once was dead and is now risen, establishes the community of believers as his own Body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jesuit Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 We need to send those baby raping Catholic Priests that are hiding in every church across america to GITMO for some lovin with our Muslim friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 We need to send those baby raping Catholic Priests that are hiding in every church across america to GITMO for some lovin with our Muslim friends. How about all baby rapers? Protestant preachers? Teachers? Doctors? Everyday people? Family members? How about we send you there? @ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ron Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 What? Acts is a book. Not true. He spent 40 days after the Resurrection with His disciples. I suggest you do, especially the part about PENTECOST. lol What?: Matthew 16:18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it." Peter was the first Shepard of the Lord's Church on earth and it's foundation was on Pentecost, 33 AD, in the Upper Room in Jerusalem. 805 The Church is the Body of Christ. Through the Spirit and his action in the sacraments, above all the Eucharist, Christ, who once was dead and is now risen, establishes the community of believers as his own Body. You've got the right scriptures but you don't have them in the correct Historical order. Penticost happened after Christ left the earth. Before Jesus left he told his followers to go and wait for the comforter that would be sent(The Holy Spirit). As you said in the "upper room", "the day of Pentecost. I get the feeling you've been taught but not accutally read for yourself. This is very basic Bible. Have you read the Book of Acts? I don't disagree with your scriptures but you don't have them in the correct cronolgical order making your argument wrong. I agree with the statement about Peter and the Church but he didn't mean that day. It wasn't until after being filled with the Holy Sprirt in the upper room that Peter gained his boldness to preach and do miricles. As for the 40 days. Had he not arose and spent 40 days this discussion would be pointless. If you dont understand why then you've missed the boat all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Not a zealot. Just a faithful Catholic. No. By anyone's standard you are a Zealot. We have gone over this before and you don't seem to get it. Only one person can act and speak for the entire 1.3 BILLION Catholics: The Pope. Example: If I went on a killing spree killing protestants, it wasn't the act of the Catholic Church, even though I am Catholic. I have have no authority in the Church. Likewise governments. And if a Pope should succumb to Senile Dementia? Come to think of it hat would explain a lot! If you went on a lone killing spree it may or may not be Church sanctioned. But how many French Catholics did it take to slaughter 25,000 Huguenots in one day? That took organization. Either that or the Church didn't mentor its Flock very well. Try telling me that it wasn't done in the name of the Church and with the Church's blessing. Quick huddle of the Blame Shifting Department, then: "OK, go ahead. But if anyone asks, your Church had nothing to do with it (nudge nudge, wink wink!)" The governments you cite were beholden to the Church. Rigidly! Separation of Church & State was a sham. The Church gave the orders and the Government 'legalized' them. It had to be that way so the Church could appear to keep its nose clean. For you and/or the CC to insist otherwise is a chronic insult to anyone's intelligence. The 'Laws' governments acted upon had been gone over with a fine tooth comb by the Church to ensure that they complied with Church values and pandered to its best interests at every step of the way. They would never have become Law otherwise. Was it the Church or heads of State that were Catholics who had little tolerance for people attacking the Lord's Church within there respective countries? Can Catholic Monarchs act in the Name of the Church? No. If you've finished with that first bridge, I've got another one to sell you! The puffs of white or black smoke are just signals to what biblical practices that are taking place within the Sistine Chapel. Free kick? Hardly. What a Red Herring! You call it 'Biblical Practices' as if that masks the fact that His Popeship was chosen entirely by Men and not by God. @ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 You've got the right scriptures but you don't have them in the correct Historical order. Penticost happened after Christ left the earth. Before Jesus left he told his followers to go and wait for the comforter that would be sent(The Holy Spirit). As you said in the "upper room", "the day of Pentecost. I get the feeling you've been taught but not accutally read for yourself. This is very basic Bible. Have you read the Book of Acts? I don't disagree with your scriptures but you don't have them in the correct cronolgical order making your argument wrong. I agree with the statement about Peter and the Church but he didn't mean that day. It wasn't until after being filled with the Holy Sprirt in the upper room that Peter gained his boldness to preach and do miricles. You're right, I'm wrong. What was I thinking? Resurrection to Ascension: 40 days. Ascension to Pentecost: 7 days. I have read most of the NT. Brain fart I guess. Christ DID found ONE CHURCH and He indeed did it on Peter, the first Pope. It wasn't that day of course. I just stated that Christ HIMSELF founded HIS CHURCH and put Peter in charge. Christ then did send His Holy Spirit to "protect it and guide it in all truth" of course this makes it supernatural. Father = God Jesus Christ = God Holy Spirit = God The entire Church is made up of those believers on earth, souls in purgatory, and all those in heaven. As for the 40 days. Had he not arose and spent 40 days this discussion would be pointless. If you dont understand why then you've missed the boat all together. No Resurrection, no salvation. I have not missed the point. Just a minor mental glitch. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 What a Red Herring!� You call it 'Biblical Practices' as if that masks the fact that His Popeship was chosen entirely by Men and not by God. @ I never said God was left out of it. Acts 1:23-26 So they proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs." Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 I never said God was left out of it. Acts 1:23-26 So they proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs." Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles. So if they had tossed a coin are you saying that God would have decided whether it landed Heads or Tails? @ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack Hammer Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 to the Atheist: If im wrong then I just wasted my time if your wrong your toast. Dosent sound to me like a good bet. We all hafta have a reason to believe, don't we? What could possibly be a better reason to believe, than that if we don't then we COULD very well burn in hell for all eternity. That possibility is far more than enough to persuade me to believe!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 We all hafta have a reason to believe, don't we? What could possibly be a better reason to believe, than that if we don't then we COULD very well burn in hell for all eternity. That possibility is far more than enough to persuade me to believe!!! The only way to salvation is through the Catholic Church. Christ only has one bride. @ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 The only way to salvation is through the Catholic Church. Christ only has one bride. @ Says the book written by fallible humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 The only way to salvation is through the Catholic Church. Christ only has one bride. @ "Outside the Church there is no salvation" 846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336 847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337 848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Says the book written by fallible humans. Christianity doesn't come from a book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 � So if they had tossed a coin are you saying that God would have decided whether it landed Heads or Tails? @ Matthew 10:29-31 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows. @ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Christianity doesn't come from a book. What has been used to teach it for almost 2000 years then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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