The First Pope???????????

[Hunter]

Was Peter the first pope? The answer, according to Scripture, is a clear and emphatic no. Peter nowhere claims supremacy over the other apostles. Nowhere is his writings (1 and 2 Peter) did the Apostle Peter claim any special role, authority, or power over the church. Nowhere in Scripture does Peter, or any other apostle, state that their apostolic authority would be passed on to successors. Yes, the Apostle Peter had a leadership role among the disciples. Yes, Peter played a crucial role in the early spread of the Gospel (Acts chapters 1-10). Yes, Peter was the “rock” that Christ predicted he would be (Matthew 16:18). However, these truths about Peter in no way give support to the concept that Peter was the first pope, or that he was the “supreme leader” over the apostles, or that his authority would be passed on to the bishops of Rome. Peter himself points us all to the true Shepherd and Overseer of the church, the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Peter 2:25).

[Guest Guest]

You are going to get the wrath of AFC!!!!

[A Faithful Catholic]

Was Peter the first pope? The answer, according to Scripture, is a clear and emphatic no. Peter nowhere claims supremacy over the other apostles. Nowhere is his writings (1 and 2 Peter) did the Apostle Peter claim any special role, authority, or power over the church. Nowhere in Scripture does Peter, or any other apostle, state that their apostolic authority would be passed on to successors. Yes, the Apostle Peter had a leadership role among the disciples. Yes, Peter played a crucial role in the early spread of the Gospel (Acts chapters 1-10). Yes, Peter was the “rock” that Christ predicted he would be (Matthew 16:18). However, these truths about Peter in no way give support to the concept that Peter was the first pope, or that he was the “supreme leader” over the apostles, or that his authority would be passed on to the bishops of Rome. Peter himself points us all to the true Shepherd and Overseer of the church, the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Peter 2:25).

 

Since you are certainly the one that has been posting those GARBAGE quotes from heretical websites, I am about to give you ANOTHER spanking:

 

Catechism:

 

The episcopal college and its head, the Pope

 

880 When Christ instituted the Twelve, "he constituted [them] in the form of a college or permanent assembly, at the head of which he placed Peter, chosen from among them."398 Just as "by the Lord's institution, St. Peter and the rest of the apostles constitute a single apostolic college, so in like fashion the Roman Pontiff, Peter's successor, and the bishops, the successors of the apostles, are related with and united to one another."399

 

881 The Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter, the "rock" of his Church. He gave him the keys of his Church and instituted him shepherd of the whole flock.400 "The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of apostles united to its head."401 This pastoral office of Peter and the other apostles belongs to the Church's very foundation and is continued by the bishops under the primacy of the Pope.

 

882 The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful."402 "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."403

 

883 "The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter's successor, as its head." As such, this college has "supreme and full authority over the universal Church; but this power cannot be exercised without the agreement of the Roman Pontiff."404

 

884 "The college of bishops exercises power over the universal Church in a solemn manner in an ecumenical council."405 But "there never is an ecumenical council which is not confirmed or at least recognized as such by Peter's successor."406

 

885 "This college, in so far as it is composed of many members, is the expression of the variety and universality of the People of God; and of the unity of the flock of Christ, in so far as it is assembled under one head."407

 

886 "The individual bishops are the visible source and foundation of unity in their own particular Churches."408 As such, they "exercise their pastoral office over the portion of the People of God assigned to them,"409 assisted by priests and deacons. But, as a member of the episcopal college, each bishop shares in the concern for all the Churches.410 The bishops exercise this care first "by ruling well their own Churches as portions of the universal Church," and so contributing "to the welfare of the whole Mystical Body, which, from another point of view, is a corporate body of Churches."411 They extend it especially to the poor,412 to those persecuted for the faith, as well as to missionaries who are working throughout the world.

 

887 Neighboring particular Churches who share the same culture form ecclesiastical provinces or larger groupings called patriarchates or regions.413 The bishops of these groupings can meet in synods or provincial councils. "In a like fashion, the episcopal conferences at the present time are in a position to contribute in many and fruitful ways to the concrete realization of the collegiate spirit."414

 

398 LG 19; cf. Lk 6:13; Jn 21:15-17.

399 LG 22; cf. CIC, can. 330.

400 Cf. Mt 16:18-19; Jn 21:15-17.

401 LG 22 § 2.

402 LG 23.

403 LG 22; cf. CD 2,9.

404 LG 22; cf. CIC, can 336.

405 CIC, can. 337 § 1.

406 LG 22.

407 LG 22.

408 LG 23.

409 LG 23.

410 Cf. CD 3.

411 LG 23.

412 Cf. Gal 2:10.

 

 

 

I suggest you start to study the History of Christianity more!

[Guest Guest]

Since you are certainly the one that has been posting those GARBAGE quotes from heretical websites, I am about to give you ANOTHER spanking:

 

Don't Blame Hunter for pasting those quotes!!!! They were posted by an anominous Guest-Guest!!!! Hunter signs in and posts!!! I think AFC owes Hunter a partiall apology!!!

 

[A Faithful Catholic]

Since you are certainly the one that has been posting those GARBAGE quotes from heretical websites, I am about to give you ANOTHER spanking:

 

Don't Blame Hunter for pasting those quotes!!!! They were posted by an anominous Guest-Guest!!!! Hunter signs in and posts!!! I think AFC owes Hunter a partiall apology!!!

 

 

Not a chance.

[Guest Guest]

I always thought that the "Rock" was Jesus Christ himself!!!

[Guest ADHD]

Was Peter the first pope? The answer, according to Scripture, is a clear and emphatic no. Peter nowhere claims supremacy over the other apostles. Nowhere is his writings (1 and 2 Peter) did the Apostle Peter claim any special role, authority, or power over the church. Nowhere in Scripture does Peter, or any other apostle, state that their apostolic authority would be passed on to successors. Yes, the Apostle Peter had a leadership role among the disciples. Yes, Peter played a crucial role in the early spread of the Gospel (Acts chapters 1-10). Yes, Peter was the “rock” that Christ predicted he would be (Matthew 16:18). However, these truths about Peter in no way give support to the concept that Peter was the first pope, or that he was the “supreme leader” over the apostles, or that his authority would be passed on to the bishops of Rome. Peter himself points us all to the true Shepherd and Overseer of the church, the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Peter 2:25).

Spitzer was the first Pope. Chuck Norris was the second

[Guest Guest]

He's just a man - the pope. Has a cool car and makes decisions for billions of people - but it's never his fault when his flock goes a stray (with little boys). If the people teaching the stuff called religion and can't follow the rules - the person at the top should have his head roll. The laws are clear - the church should punish the heretics that allows priests to make mistakes. They don't follow the rules they are against the church and should be punished. That's what I think. My religion doesn't go far enough against the priests.

 

Thanks AFC - I know know that the Church is always right and ALL people in it need to be punished for not following the rules. You have made it so clear. Kill those that are less than god because when they fail, it's not the church's fault - EVER!

[A Faithful Catholic]

I always thought that the "Rock" was Jesus Christ himself!!!

 

Nope. Jesus is the builder. Peter is the ROCK:

 

As a matter of fact, here are some PROTESTANT LEADERS who back it up:

 

ALBERT BARNES

 

(NINETEENTH-CENTURY PRESBYTERIAN)

 

"The meaning of this phrase may be thus expressed: ‘Thou, in saying that I am the Son of God, hast called me by a name expressive of my true character. I, also, have given to thee a name expressive of your character. I have called you Peter, a rock. . . . I see that you are worthy of the name and will be a distinguished support of my religion" [barnes’ Notes on the New Testament, 170].

 

 

JOHN BROADUS

 

( NINETEENTH-CENTURY CALVINISTIC BAPTIST)

 

"As Peter means rock, the natural interpretation is that ‘upon this rock’ means upon thee. . . . It is an even more far-fetched and harsh play upon words if we understand the rock to be Christ and a very feeble and almost unmeaning play upon words if the rock is Peter’s confession" [Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew, 356].

 

 

CRAIG L. BLOMBERG

 

( CONTEMPORARY BAPTIST)

 

"The expression ‘this rock’ almost certainly refers to Peter, following immediately after his name, just as the words following ‘the Christ’ in verse 16 applied to Jesus. The play on words in the Greek between Peter’s name (Petros) and the word ‘rock’ (petra) makes sense only if Peter is the Rock and if Jesus is about to explain the significance of this identification" [New American Commentary: Matthew, 22:252].

 

 

J. KNOX CHAMBLIN

 

( CONTEMPORARY PRESBYTERIAN)

 

"By the words ‘this rock’ Jesus means not himself, nor his teaching, nor God the Father, nor Peter’s confession, but Peter himself. The phrase is immediately preceded by a direct and emphatic reference to Peter. As Jesus identifies himself as the builder, the rock on which he builds is most naturally understood as someone (or something) other than Jesus himself" ["Matthew" in Evangelical Commentary on the Bible, 742].

 

 

R. T. FRANCE

 

( CONTEMPORARY ANGLICAN)

 

"The word-play, and the whole structure of the passage, demands that this verse is every bit as much Jesus’ declaration about Peter as verse 16 was Peter’s declaration about Jesus. Of course it is on the basis of Peter’s confession that Jesus declares his role as the Church’s foundation, but it is to Peter, not his confession, that the rock metaphor is applied" (Gospel According to Matthew, 254).

 

 

HERMAN RIDDERBOS

 

( CONTEMPORARY DUTCH REFORMED)

 

"It is well known that the Greek word petra translated ‘rock’ here is different from the proper name Peter. The slight difference between them has no special importance, however. The most likely explanation for the change from petros (‘Peter’) to petra is that petra was the normal word for ‘rock.’ . . . There is no good reason to think that Jesus switched from petros to petra to show that he was not speaking of the man Peter but of his confession as the foundation of the Church. The words ‘on this rock [petra]’ indeed refer to Peter" [bible Student’s Commentary: Matthew, 303].

 

 

DONALD HAGNER

 

( CONTEMPORARY EVANGELICAL)

"The frequent attempts that have been made, largely in the past, to deny [that Peter is the rock] in favor of the view that the confession itself is the rock . . . seem to be largely motivated by Protestant prejudice against a passage that is used by the Roman Catholics to justify the papacy" (Word Biblical Commentary 33b:470).

 

 

 

The PASSAGE:

 

Matthew 16:17-20

 

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." 20Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.

 

THIS IS THE PAPACY.

 

_____________________

 

My caricature:

 

"Of course we all know that Jesus didn't leave anyone in charge of His church. On this rock and all that stuff was just about the pyramids. You know rocks and such. Peter just happened to be standing there and somehow his name got stuck in there. Jesus was the rock and so forth. Peter who? I always thought it was Paul but it could have been Judas, in fact it must have been Judas how it all turned out."

 

That always cracks me up!

[A Faithful Catholic]

He's just a man - the pope. Has a cool car and makes decisions for billions of people - but it's never his fault when his flock goes a stray (with little boys).

 

No one answers for the sins of another.

If the people teaching the stuff called religion and can't follow the rules - the person at the top should have his head roll. The laws are clear - the church should punish the heretics that allows priests to make mistakes. They don't follow the rules they are against the church and should be punished. That's what I think. My religion doesn't go far enough against the priests.

 

People have the free will to make choices, good or evil.

Thanks AFC - I know know that the Church is always right and ALL people in it need to be punished for not following the rules. You have made it so clear. Kill those that are less than god because when they fail, it's not the church's fault - EVER!

 

The Faith beliefs and Dogmas are not the problem - THE PEOPLE ARE.

 

 

[Guest Troll Man]

No one answers for the sins of another.

 

 

People have the free will to make choices, good or evil.

 

 

The Faith beliefs and Dogmas are not the problem - THE PEOPLE ARE.

Hey AFC I'm back you DELETED

[Guest Guest]

No one answers for the sins of another.

 

 

People have the free will to make choices, good or evil.

 

 

The Faith beliefs and Dogmas are not the problem - THE PEOPLE ARE.

 

Your are so right AFC - it's the people that are the problem. We need to have a Crusade again - we must get everyone to follow the Dogma. Kill anyone that doesn't follow if needed. What do you say?

 

Catholic region for everyone! Come on everyone - join in, AFC is so right!

[Guest Knight of Darkness]

Since you are certainly the one that has been posting those GARBAGE quotes from heretical websites, I am about to give you ANOTHER spanking:

 

YOU'RE going to give Hunter a spanking?????

[A Faithful Catholic]

YOU'RE going to give Hunter a spanking?????

 

 

All he can do is cut and paste from ignorant websites. BIG WHOOP. He has no substance, like you and your diaper clad friend, satan.

[Kermit]

All he can do is cut and paste from ignorant websites. BIG WHOOP. He has no substance, like you and your diaper clad friend, satan.

 

 

Pot, meet kettle!

[The West Sider]

Pot, meet kettle!

 

LOL.

[Whitey Bulger]

AFC is always right....why dont we all become more like him...then all of our lives would be perfect.....which church do you attend AFC...we all want to go there this sunday......we have seen the light!

[Kermit]

AFC is always right....why dont we all become more like him...then all of our lives would be perfect.....which church do you attend AFC...we all want to go there this sunday......we have seen the light!

 

I don't want to go to Hell, therefore I cannot be more like him.

[A Faithful Catholic]

AFC is always right....why dont we all become more like him...then all of our lives would be perfect.....which church do you attend AFC...we all want to go there this sunday......we have seen the light!

 

I attend the CATHOLIC CHURCH which holds the Faith handed down by the Apostles.

 

[Hunter]

All he can do is cut and paste from ignorant websites. BIG WHOOP. He has no substance, like you and your diaper clad friend, satan.

 

 

 

Exactly what did I whack and paste you giant hypocrit? AFC, YOU are bounding over your steps again and are tripping all over your own lies. Obviously your ignorance is being fed by your arrogance. I suppose that next your mantra will become, "whatever". Hands down, you are the most pathetic web lizard that I have ever seen in my life. You and your false faith remind me of a mangina. As a matter of fact, you are henceforth the king of the Manginas and a Clampax Poonton shall be your thrown. Wishing you well..........somewhat.

 

Hunter

 

[Guest Knight of Darkness]

Pot, meet kettle!

 

Thanks Kermit, you can't say it any better than that.

[Guest Knight of Darkness]

All he can do is cut and paste from ignorant websites. BIG WHOOP. He has no substance, like you and your diaper clad friend, satan.

 

Oops, I keep forgetting you're a mental deficient, we're supposed to ignore you. Anyway, at least Satan doesn't post pictures of his dirty diapers like you. And he was insulted at the notion you're his spawn.

[Hunter]

Nowhere does Scripture state that in order to keep the church from error, the authority of the apostles was passed on to those they ordained (apostolic succession). Apostolic succession is “read into” those verses that the Roman Catholic Church uses to support this doctrine (2 Timothy 2:2; 4:2-5; Titus 1:5; 2:1; 2:15; 1 Timothy 5:19-22). Paul does NOT call on believers in various churches to receive Titus, Timothy, and other church leaders based on their authority as bishops, or their having apostolic authority, but rather based upon their being fellow laborers with him (1 Corinthians 16:10; 16:16; 2 Corinthians 8:23).

 

 

 

AFC, the above is the absolute truth and you cannot refute it with with your lies.

[Guest Guest]

Nowhere does Scripture state that in order to keep the church from error, the authority of the apostles was passed on to those they ordained (apostolic succession). Apostolic succession is “read into” those verses that the Roman Catholic Church uses to support this doctrine (2 Timothy 2:2; 4:2-5; Titus 1:5; 2:1; 2:15; 1 Timothy 5:19-22). Paul does NOT call on believers in various churches to receive Titus, Timothy, and other church leaders based on their authority as bishops, or their having apostolic authority, but rather based upon their being fellow laborers with him (1 Corinthians 16:10; 16:16; 2 Corinthians 8:23).

 

AFC, the above is the absolute truth and you cannot refute it with with your lies.

 

The Apostles were eyewitneses to the existence of Jesus Christ!! Nowhere in sacred Scripture does it ever mention anything about Apostolic succession!!! Apostolic succession is not biblical.

[Guest Satan]

Oops, I keep forgetting you're a mental deficient, we're supposed to ignore you. Anyway, at least Satan doesn't post pictures of his dirty diapers like you. And he was insulted at the notion you're his spawn.

 

 

Yes, I no longer have any doubt Chatty Catty is not mentally well. He also is not even slightly amusing anymore, he just repeats back whatever you say to him -- like a little kid on a playground. I decided to stop wasting my time on him -- there is just no sport in it anymore.