Obama Stimulus

[Guest Guest]

It is tough - I dont know why I bother. I truly like debate, discord and exchanging of ideas - but these gymbags just want to take cheap shots, make stuff up - act stupid (are they really acting?).

 

I try and not let the DELETED get me down - but I hate to let them think they are getting away with any bs.

 

I am a bit obsessive compulsive by nature (that's a freakin understatement!!!)

 

Hi pot, I am kettle.

[tom]

Thank God. A post that is NOT actually a TTR. Thank you sir.

 

So funny watching socialists pat themselves on the back like they are Gods gift to humanity. Obviously you don't have ANY idea what you are doing when you go to the voting booth.

[Guest Guest]

So funny watching socialists pat themselves on the back like they are Gods gift to humanity. Obviously you don't have ANY idea what you are doing when you go to the voting booth.

 

Beck and rocco must do polls together. Among other things.

 

The best part is beck actually believes that rocco does not make up facts to support his arguments. Unbelievable.

[Guest Guest]

Rocco, Rocco, Rocco;

 

You are not debating this thread issue at all. You have been conspicuously silent in your defense of the liberal socialist stimulus/bank-bailout/budget. All you want to do is attack the messengers indicating that the Obamacrats are off to a horrible start. Don't you think that if the financial market liked what he and his flock are doing that it would be reflected in the market??? The issue is the bad job done so far. Do you defend what he has done? Do you like what he has done?? Do you want an even bigger government than he is creating?? Do you want more entitlements than he has already doled out??? Do you think he didn't go far enough in taxing the productive segment of American society?? Do you want him to raise taxes even more than he's done so far?? Do you want him to give even more payback to his political allies?? If so, state your defense so we can understand it. Just don't take cheap personal shots at the people who disagree with you.

 

Worst February for the DOW since 1933. Come on! Defend the government you elected!

[rocco]

Rocco, Rocco, Rocco;

 

You are not debating this thread issue at all. You have been conspicuously silent in your defense of the liberal socialist stimulus/bank-bailout/budget. All you want to do is attack the messengers indicating that the Obamacrats are off to a horrible start. Don't you think that if the financial market liked what he and his flock are doing that it would be reflected in the market??? The issue is the bad job done so far. Do you defend what he has done? Do you like what he has done?? Do you want an even bigger government than he is creating?? Do you want more entitlements than he has already doled out??? Do you think he didn't go far enough in taxing the productive segment of American society?? Do you want him to raise taxes even more than he's done so far?? Do you want him to give even more payback to his political allies?? If so, state your defense so we can understand it. Just don't take cheap personal shots at the people who disagree with you.

 

Worst February for the DOW since 1933. Come on! Defend the government you elected!

 

 

I dont know where you have been, but i have made my feelings abundantly clear how I feel about the stimulus and about the new budget.

 

while we agree on some aspects of the budget and stimulus, we disagree that obama is off to a bad start - and thankfully, most Americans agree with me and not you..

 

I like some things he has done very much - others, I am mixed feelings about as I have described here \many a time.

 

I am not certain what you mean when you say he is taking the "most productive" segment of our society - as he has given tax cuts to the 95% of the populace that works and produces more than any other segment. I thought you guys liked tax breaks. Or was that only when they went to the rich?

 

You say he has raised taxes. Actually, to date, he has not raised a single dime in taxes, so your assumption is factually incorrect.

 

You aks if I think he should "give more" to his political allies - could you point out to me wher he has given them anything to this point? I am not sure what that is.

 

by the way - the bank bailout was under bush. personally, I thought iwas a necessary evil - although it was not implemented very well and had no oversight. The very fact that obama's extension of bush's bank bailout has more oversight and stipulations involved for the banks is one of the reasons why the stock market is tanking. the other of course is that the fundementals of the economy suck. 8 years of the past administration has done alot to destroy the manufactuing base of the country, the finanical instittuions and the housing market.

 

the only "entitlements" he has 'doled out" as you say, is an extension of unemployment benefits, one that I agree with,

 

so you see, about 3/4 of your post was factually incorrect. hard to have discussions with people who can not see the reality in front of them, study it and come up with an intelligent thought about it. try harder next time

 

 

[Guest Guest]

I find it hard to believe that anyone thinks the stock market is a valid indicator of anything.

 

Starting in 1960 and using a decline of 10% as some sort of leading indicator would have generated 5 false positives, one miss, and one success. At the start of the 1980 recession the S&P was up year over year about 5%, at the start of the 1982 double dip recession the S&P was up close to 30%, at the start of the 1991 recession the S&P was up over 10%, and at the start of the 2001 recession the S&P was nearly flat. The S&P did not decline 10% before during or after the 1960 recession. As a coincident indicator the results would have picked up 1982 and 1991 but would still have missed 1960 and 1980. In 1987 and 2003 the stock market declined nearly 20% but there was no recession.

 

[Beck]

Beck and rocco must do polls together. Among other things.

 

The best part is beck actually believes that rocco does not make up facts to support his arguments. Unbelievable.

 

Oooooh I was burned. An allusion to homosexuallity. You got me. Rocco tends to actually link to where he gets his data. You present ad hominem attacks. You...well you would be like poster 5. Congrats.

 

Tom saying that I am a socialist definitely makes me giggle. Tom. You do don't know me. You know nothing about me. I know you. You parrot Mike Weiner religiously. You hate Mexicans. You are a sad bitter man with no ideas of your own. Congratulations Tom is a poster 1.

 

 

[Guest Guest]

Rocco, you are a real challenge. You select the fact nuggets that support your point of view, but can't or will not recognize facts that don't. You have been watching too many liberal spin doctors and must be attempting to develop similar skills to selectively use only the facts that support your views, not affect or change your views. You need to concede that you may not always be right (or even seldomly be right) and take into account facts and arguments that don't support your distorted view of the world.

 

Allow me to comment on your condescending previous post:

 

I dont know where you have been, but i have made my feelings abundantly clear how I feel about the stimulus and about the new budget. Not in this thread you haven't. What are you expecting us to do? Search the overwhelming amount of mostly one-sided drivel you impose on us in other threads?

while we agree on some aspects of the budget and stimulus, we disagree that obama is off to a bad start - and thankfully, most Americans agree with me and not you.. Most Americans? Let's clarify, most uninformed or misguided Americans. Certainly not me,the financial market and many many others.

 

I like some things he has done very much - others, I am mixed feelings about as I have described here \many a time.

 

I am not certain what you mean when you say he is taking the "most productive" segment of our society - as he has given tax cuts to the 95% of the populace that works and produces more than any other segment. I thought you guys liked tax breaks. Or was that only when they went to the rich? Rocco, take a good look not so much at the incentive package, but the future budget Obama is proposing. The regulations, taxes and disincentives in that budget are going to discourage private sector free market enterprise which is the exact opposite of what our government should be doing. It's not simply the taxes on the rich, but the taxes, regulations and disincentives on business. All this money he will be generating will be taking money away from these people to provide more entitlements to those who do not work, don't want to work, and are happily awaiting the gifts that Obama promised them for voting for him.

 

You say he has raised taxes. Actually, to date, he has not raised a single dime in taxes, so your assumption is factually incorrect. Wrong, very wrong. Give us one big break Rocco. Who said we are paying higher taxes today. Is this the best you can do?? The taxes are all going to be paid starting in 2010 and will explode dramatically after that to support his huge deficite, entitlement, social re-engineering, income redistributing agenda.

 

You aks if I think he should "give more" to his political allies - could you point out to me wher he has given them anything to this point? I am not sure what that is. Again, Rocco, do you think we are stupid? Take a look at the "earmarks" (the ones Obama said he would never allow) in his proposed new budget; if I'm not mistaken, there are almost 7,000 of them. Also, organized labor is well supported in the stimulus bill.

 

by the way - the bank bailout was under bush. personally, I thought iwas a necessary evil - although it was not implemented very well and had no oversight. The very fact that obama's extension of bush's bank bailout has more oversight and stipulations involved for the banks is one of the reasons why the stock market is tanking. the other of course is that the fundementals of the economy suck. 8 years of the past administration has done alot to destroy the manufactuing base of the country, the finanical instittuions and the housing market. Again Rocco, you are either intentionally misleading or just plain uninformed. Take a look at Obamas new 750 billion dollar bailout proposed yesterday. Rocco, your losing your credibility quite quickly. (link)

 

the only "entitlements" he has 'doled out" as you say, is an extension of unemployment benefits, one that I agree with, Rocco, this is tiring. Look at Obama's budget proposal. Please start recognizing facts that don't support your views.

 

so you see, about 3/4 of your post was factually incorrect. hard to have discussions with people who can not see the reality in front of them, study it and come up with an intelligent thought about it. try harder next time. This is where you create problems with your posts, Rocco. This type of condescending I'm smarter than you type of argument really creates problems for you. You don't need to finish your posts with this kind of stuff. This is why people tend to fluff you off as a brainwashed, brain addled, died in the wool liberal socialist.

[Guest Guest]

Here's another example of Obama's love of taxes, big government, and ultra-liberal agenda. Obama is now proposing a $645 billion dollar tax increase on energy which includes $31 billion in new gas & oil taxes. Who gets taxed? The oil companies. What happens then? The oil companies pass that tax along to the consumers. So who ends up paying the taxes? Anyone who owns a car. Is this a tax on the rich? NO!! It's one of the most regressive forms of taxation because the American average Joe ends up paying this tax but Obama can still claim he is not increasing taxes on the "poor".

 

Another example among numerous others as to how Obama has mislead all his liberal brainwashed followers. Obama's new liberal entitlement socialist agenda is now becoming more evident. No wonder the DOW is tanking.

 

 

@

[tom]

Oooooh I was burned. An allusion to homosexuallity. You got me. Rocco tends to actually link to where he gets his data. You present ad hominem attacks. You...well you would be like poster 5. Congrats.

 

Tom saying that I am a socialist definitely makes me giggle. Tom. You do don't know me. You know nothing about me. I know you. You parrot Mike Weiner religiously. You hate Mexicans. You are a sad bitter man with no ideas of your own. Congratulations Tom is a poster 1.

 

Your lack of ability to "rationalize" holds you back Beck. When a person votes for a "socialist", I assume that person, whom is apparently voting for a socialist, is a socialist. Why would a person vote for a socialist if that person didn't favor socialism? Sorry Beck, I think logically.

 

As for Mexicans Beck, you know NOTHING about me either. I still have a number of Mexicans I befriended when I lived in California and they don't like what illegal aliens are doing to our country either. So I guess with your logic, they hate Mexicans too. In your eyes I may be a bitter man with no ideas of my own, but you are the kind of person that does what he is told without question, and the ideology you seem to support is ANTI-AMERICAN!!!

[tom]

You say he has raised taxes. Actually, to date, he has not raised a single dime in taxes, so your assumption is factually incorrect.

 

rocco, you may be right, but a 50% federal raise of gas taxes, a new "carbon" tax, and cap and trade will make that extra $13 a week in our paychecks look like chicken feed when Obama gets done. These taxes are directed at EVERYONE, not just the wealthy.

 

 

@

[Guest Guest]

Rocco?? Rocco?? Where are you? Having trouble responding with arguments that made sense? Maybe this is too hard for you!

[BlackSven]

Rocco?? Rocco?? Where are you? Having trouble responding with arguments that made sense? Maybe this is too hard for you!

 

 

I think you need another hobby other then Rocco. It might be a bit more productive.

 

 

@

[Ignorant Poster]

I find it hard to believe that anyone thinks the stock market is a valid indicator of anything.

 

Starting in 1960 and using a decline of 10% as some sort of leading indicator would have generated 5 false positives, one miss, and one success. At the start of the 1980 recession the S&P was up year over year about 5%, at the start of the 1982 double dip recession the S&P was up close to 30%, at the start of the 1991 recession the S&P was up over 10%, and at the start of the 2001 recession the S&P was nearly flat. The S&P did not decline 10% before during or after the 1960 recession. As a coincident indicator the results would have picked up 1982 and 1991 but would still have missed 1960 and 1980. In 1987 and 2003 the stock market declined nearly 20% but there was no recession.

The stock market is a valid indicator of consumer confidence because it's the most immediate form of it.

[Guest Guest]

I think you need another hobby other then Rocco. It might be a bit more productive.

 

 

@

 

Probably. Rocco is fun, though. At least he seems intellegent enough to respond to facts that might, just might affect his somewhat warped liberal approach to issues. And besides, Rocco appears to have taken over as the BC Voice spokesperson for all things liberal. So debates with Rocco are debates by proxy with the other liberals on this site.

 

 

@

[Guest Guest]

... a 50% federal raise of gas taxes, a new "carbon" tax, and cap and trade will make that extra $13 a week in our paychecks look like chicken feed when Obama gets done.

 

That $13 a week looks like chicken feed now and it's soon to be $8! It's absolutely laughable that this is what Obama calls a "tax cut" for middle income Americans. This pathetic amount exists only so that Obama can say he's cutting taxes.

 

 

@

[rocco]

rocco, you may be right, but a 50% federal raise of gas taxes, a new "carbon" tax, and cap and trade will make that extra $13 a week in our paychecks look like chicken feed when Obama gets done. These taxes are directed at EVERYONE, not just the wealthy.

 

 

@

 

 

agreed

[Guest Guest]

Monday, 3/2, 12 PM.

 

The DOW loves Obama's efforts so far! Down another $215 nearing a 12 year low.

 

If the financial market thought that Obama was doing any good so far, don't you think the market would reflect that confidence??

 

Stimulus - no short term help. Most takes effect many years down the line. Lots of non-stimulus spending.

TARP (especially most recent) - expensive bailouts rewarding bad behavior

Budget - a complete liberal social engineering, entitlement expansion, pork and earmark laden big government expanding, tax expanding incredibly expensive proposal.

 

What has Obama done to deserve any confidence that he knows what he'd doing. A man who has never run or owned any business is now running our country.

[Guest Guest]

So as the Ole accountant said you might want to watch how you accept that $13.00 a week raise obama is giving you. They have not adjusted the tax tables to account for your increase in income so it will now be deductible income next tax season. It is just a loan they will be back to collect their interest from you next April. Might want to adjust your deductions so they take the taxes out weekly on that $676.00 dollar raise obama gave you.

 

 

@

[Guest Guest]

Monday, 3/2, 12 PM.

 

The DOW loves Obama's efforts so far! Down another $215 nearing a 12 year low.

 

If the financial market thought that Obama was doing any good so far, don't you think the market would reflect that confidence??

 

Stimulus - no short term help. Most takes effect many years down the line. Lots of non-stimulus spending.

TARP (especially most recent) - expensive bailouts rewarding bad behavior

Budget - a complete liberal social engineering, entitlement expansion, pork and earmark laden big government expanding, tax expanding incredibly expensive proposal.

 

What has Obama done to deserve any confidence that he knows what he'd doing. A man who has never run or owned any business is now running our country.

 

 

Now, at the end of the day, the DOW is down almost $300.

 

[rocco]

Now, at the end of the day, the DOW is down almost $300.

 

since when is the dow measured in dollars?

 

[Guest Guest]

since when is the dow measured in dollars?

 

Got me! Mistype. By the way, you never acknowledged post #233.

 

 

@

[Guest Guest]

The good news is that the gov't is going to give AIG even MORE money....and the only reason they keepbailing them out is because that is who has the senator and congressmans retirements and 401k's. Big shock that the gov't will bail their butts out AGAIN.

[rocco]

Got me! Mistype. By the way, you never acknowledged post #233.

 

 

@

 

 

I ws just bustin ya anyway on the $ thing - I knew what you meant. and I think it sucks that the market is going down so badly. lost half my retirement

 

anyway - the other post - good god it was so long and you found so much at fault with me - it would have been exhausting to go back and debate all those points!

 

 

@

[Guest Guest]

The good news is that the gov't is going to give AIG even MORE money....and the only reason they keepbailing them out is because that is who has the senator and congressmans retirements and 401k's. Big shock that the gov't will bail their butts out AGAIN.

 

These businesses, including the failing car industry, are spending cash faster than if it was on fire. You've got to wonder how many months they can keep pouring money into this bottomless pit. They should have never spent a dime on these companies, but instead let the inevitable happen. The only difference now is when these companies fail tax payers will be out hundreds of billions of dollars, compounding the problem. And why does Obama keep criticizing big business while at the same time giving them money? Every time he opens his mouth the DOW drops another few hundred. I can understand why investors are getting out of this market.

 

 

@