Looking for a good christian church

[Jon]

There are certain words one just doesn't dare put into a thread title else AFC will make the thread his own.  

[Guest Guest]

I will pray for your lost soul.

 

Any rational person would conclude that Hebrews borrowed Jesus from Egyptian mythology. How do you explain that both Jesus and Horus had this and much more in common?

 

(1) Horus was born of the virgin Isis on December 25th in a cave/manger.

(2) Horus' birth was announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.

(3) The infant Horus was carried out of Egypt to escape the wrath of Typhon. The infant Jesus was carried into Egypt to escape the wrath of Herod. Concerning the infant Jesus, the New Testament states the following prophecy: "Out of Egypt have I called my son." (Matt. 2:15)

 

(4) He was a child teacher in the temple and was baptized by “Anup the Baptizer” when he was thirty years old.

 

(5) He had twelve disciples and performed miracles such as feeding bread to the multitude and walking on water.

 

(6) He raised one man, El-Azar-us, from the dead.

(7) He transfigured on a mount.

(8) He also had titles such as the "way, the truth, the light, the Messiah, God's anointed Son, the Son of Man, the good shepherd, the lamb of God, the Word, the Morning Star, the light of the world.”

 

(9) He was "the Fisher," and was associated with the lamb, lion and fish ("Ichthys").

(10) Horus's personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father."

(11) Horus was called "KRST," or "Anointed One.”

(12) He was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected.

 

 

 

[Guest Guest]

So a parishioner should stop paying the Church because of few terrible priests? Should you stop paying your school tax because of teacher molesters?

 

Who is going to help feed 408,000 priests every day in the world?

 

the CC is one of the wealthiest organizations in the world.

 

They can afford to feed them all for 1,000 years.

[Guest Guest]

Any rational person would conclude that Hebrews borrowed Jesus from Egyptian mythology. How do you explain that both Jesus and Horus had this and much more in common?

 

(1) Horus was born of the virgin Isis on December 25th in a cave/manger.

(2) Horus' birth was announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.

(3) The infant Horus was carried out of Egypt to escape the wrath of Typhon. The infant Jesus was carried into Egypt to escape the wrath of Herod. Concerning the infant Jesus, the New Testament states the following prophecy: "Out of Egypt have I called my son." (Matt. 2:15)

 

(4) He was a child teacher in the temple and was baptized by “Anup the Baptizer” when he was thirty years old.

 

(5) He had twelve disciples and performed miracles such as feeding bread to the multitude and walking on water.

 

(6) He raised one man, El-Azar-us, from the dead.

(7) He transfigured on a mount.

(8) He also had titles such as the "way, the truth, the light, the Messiah, God's anointed Son, the Son of Man, the good shepherd, the lamb of God, the Word, the Morning Star, the light of the world.”

 

(9) He was "the Fisher," and was associated with the lamb, lion and fish ("Ichthys").

(10) Horus's personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father."

(11) Horus was called "KRST," or "Anointed One.”

(12) He was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected.

 

Well you have quite a few inaccuracies in your post...just Google Jesus/Horus refuted and most of your points are found to be wrong...

[Guest Guest]

Honestly the Jesus/Horus comparisons are really infective...if your going to attack Christianity at least bring up a point that is debated at an academic level.

[Jon]

Any rational person would conclude that Hebrews borrowed Jesus from Egyptian mythology. How do you explain that both Jesus and Horus had this and much more in common?

 

(1) Horus was born of the virgin Isis

 

<ETC>

 

the lamb, lion and fish ("Ichthys"). 

 

 

(10) Horus's personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father."

(11) Horus was called "KRST," or "Anointed One."

(12) He was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected.

Also:

 

(Opinion) 

 

The word IS-RA-EL is an acronym for;

 

ISIS, one of the goddess of Ancient Egypt,

RA, A Primeval god of Ancient Egypt, Amen RA and, 

ELOHIM, the Hebrew word for god in plural form.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_orig...the_name_Israel

And a suggestion of this breakdown of the name "Israel" recurs here too:

 

PDF file, page 31 of 149 (couldn't copy-paste because it is encrypted):

 

http://www.experiencingnow.com/BibleMyster...ibleMeaning.pdf

 

So it's an idea that has been considered by scholars for some time.

 

HehHeh! That should secure my Heretic Membership for at least another week.

[Guest Guest]

I'm having a little bit of difficulty following what you are trying to say... but from the list all the major points are refuted.

http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusHorus.html

[Jon]

 

I'm having a little bit of difficulty following what you are trying to say... but from the list all the major points are refuted.

http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusHorus.html

If you are having difficulty following what I am saying (not "trying" to say), then how can you even know what you are trying to refute?

[Guest Guest]

It's good to see that this religious thread has gotten 207 responses, which is 11 pages of them. I haven't read many of them, but that's just because I'm lazy and not because I'm not interested. Of course I'm sure that many of the comments woudn't interest me, but that's beside the point. Thanks to the original poster for starting this thread.

[Guest Guest]

 

If you are having difficulty following what I am saying (not "trying" to say), then how can you even know what you are trying to refute?

 

I refuted the original Horus/Jesus post, which I believe you were trying to argue for. However your bit about Israel confused me slightly because I'm was trying understand if you were serious about it. (I really hope you weren't).

http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Israel.html

[Guest Guest]

Ahh I love seeing jon getting owned in a debate

[Jon]

 

I refuted the original Horus/Jesus post, which I believe you were trying to argue for. However your bit about Israel confused me slightly because I'm was trying understand if you were serious about it. (I really hope you weren't). 

http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Israel.html

OK, I was not trying to argue 'for' the Horus/Jesus post. To be honest, it was the first I'd heard of it. That said, it would not surprise me if at least some element of it (however minor) were true, simply because identifiable mythological characters, events and concepts have often been found to cross over between cultures under re-vamped names in various parts of the world. So on that basis alone one couldn't entirely rule out a possibility of the same cross-fertilization of lore in the Middle East/Egypt region either.

 

As for "Is-Ra-El" I'd once overheard a Theologian promote that view. It caused me passing interest at the time, no more. After all, in the murky realm of irrational belief systems anything is possible.

 

But I was reminded again of it when I read the Horus/Jesus ponderings above, and went Googling. I found references to alternate versions of the origin of Israel's name including the one which I'd overheard years earlier. I threw it into the mix here to see what light others could cast on it. I profess no stake in this but discussion is always healthy.     

[Jon]

 

Ahh I love seeing jon getting owned in a debate

You have a very interesting interpretation of 'owned'. If you love it as much as you say you do, why not try a little 'owning' yourself. Or could it be that your jubilation is somewhat hollow? 

[Jon]

 

http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Israel.html

OMG. 

 

Now that I've read the passage from the link I have to say that it must be about the vaguest attempt to explain anything that I have ever read. It is buried under such a load of hedge-abouts, conditionals, disclaimers and escape phrases that even a Top Silk could not pin it down! I've isolated some vagaries that drain the explanation of persuasiveness:  

 

The meaning of the name Israel is not clear ... is most likely ...  is uncertain and explained in many ways ...  insinuating ...  probably means ...  Nobody knows ... is (near) equal to ... We can not say with certainty what the name Israel is supposed to mean ... it seems to reflect ...  Perhaps the name Israel denotes ...

[Guest Guest]

 

OK, I was not trying to argue 'for' the Horus/Jesus post. To be honest, it was the first I'd heard of it. That said, it would not surprise me if at least some element of it (however minor) were true, simply because identifiable mythological characters, events and concepts have often been found to cross over between cultures under re-vamped names in various parts of the world. So on that basis alone one couldn't entirely rule out a possibility of the same cross-fertilization of lore in the Middle East/Egypt region either.

 

As for "Is-Ra-El" I'd once overheard a Theologian promote that view. It caused me passing interest at the time, no more. After all, in the murky realm of irrational belief systems anything is possible.

 

But I was reminded again of it when I read the Horus/Jesus ponderings above, and went Googling. I found references to alternate versions of the origin of Israel's name including the one which I'd overheard years earlier. I threw it into the mix here to see what light others could cast on it. I profess no stake in this but discussion is always healthy.     

 

Oh alright, thanks for clearing that up. I thought you were trying to defend the Horus post/add more proof with your Israel post. I agree that the actual origins of the word Israel are not completely known, I just think that the Isis/Ra theory is a little bit of a stretch. In regards to the Horus/Jesus comparison, most of the points are shown to be inaccurate. There do however remain several minor similarities which hardly disturb me or my faith and can be contributed to cultural diffusion.

[Jon]

 

Oh alright, thanks for clearing that up. I thought you were trying to defend the Horus post/add more proof with your Israel post. I agree that the actual origins of the word Israel are not completely known, I just think that the Isis/Ra theory is a little bit of a stretch. In regards to the Horus/Jesus comparison, most of the points are shown to be inaccurate. There do however remain several minor similarities which hardly disturb me or my faith and can be contributed to cultural diffusion.

I do remember when I first heard the "Is-Ra-El" proposition that I was immediately a little uneasy about it. Perhaps for a reason that might not occur to everyone. It is this:

 

I might be wrong but creating new "amalgam" words or acronyms by splicing together bits of other words seems to me a typically 'modern' pastime. We are very accustomed to it in the Corporate world and the world of Commerce and Advertising, to name just a few. To modern western Man it has become second nature. We take it in our stride.

 

That has a lot to do with Literacy which itself is now the rule rather than the exception.

 

Not so back in Biblical times. Intuitively I just can't see the Ancients thinking in that sort of way. What would even motivate them to create Acronyms? Sure they would be smart enough, but they did not have the same constraints that we have to operate under, like need to economize on space or time. Their languages probably didn't have as many words as modern languages and not as many concepts to express. Modern Acronyms are partly motivated by a need to strive for 'uniqueness' in a an ever growing sea of competing words so that confusing duplication is minimized. Also, their actual writing was highly standardized. Not like our modern writing which is quite remarkable in that the Roman Alphabet alone can be printed in literally thousands of letter-styles & weights yet still be read effortlessly. That too opens up not only opportunity for Acronyms but also incentive ... a particular Acronym can be decided upon on the basis of what distinctive logo can assembled by choosing certain characters & styles. In ancient times all that sort of letter & syllable creativity lay far in the future. Amalgam words would surely have been an alien concept.

 

That at least is what makes me skeptical. 

[Guest Guest]

I'll bet first Assembly Of God has an active and large youth organization. It's in Binghamton, at 254-255 Washington St.

 

 

..oh, you must mean FAG.

 

YAH, GREAT CHURCH..WINK WINK..

[Guest jeffrey]

It's sad how so many people have absolutely no insight as to how life developed. We know how life developed. Atoms are not conscious, proteins are not conscious, single cell organisms are not conscious! Consciousness is an extremely complex process involving billions of cells.

 

We are energy, energy collects into matter, matter (elements) collects into molecules. These are all universal, completely automatic unconscious processes and properties of energy. Some complex molecules such as nucleic acids and amino acids create proteins and cell structures. The whole process to the first replicating cell structure took billions of years. When you have a virtually infinite number of molecules in the universe and billions of years of random mixing and interactions the NATURAL occurrence of "life" is bound to happen no matter how great the odds.

 

The only real question is where did energy come from? Since consciousness is a process that evolved from energy over billions of years, we know that energy did not come from consciousness because consciousness is a product of energy and time.

 

Saying everything comes from God is pure idiocy, where did God come from? This answers nothing. God is a creation of mans imagination and nothing more. It is for those who can not come to terms with the fact they we don't have all the answers. I don't know where energy came from but it sure did not fart out of an imaginary supernatural consciousness floating in nothingness.

[Guest Guest]

It's sad how so many people have absolutely no insight as to how life developed. We know how life developed. Atoms are not conscious, proteins are not conscious, single cell organisms are not conscious! Consciousness is an extremely complex process involving billions of cells.

 

We are energy, energy collects into matter, matter (elements) collects into molecules. These are all universal, completely automatic unconscious processes and properties of energy. Some complex molecules such as nucleic acids and amino acids create proteins and cell structures. The whole process to the first replicating cell structure took billions of years. When you have a virtually infinite number of molecules in the universe and billions of years of random mixing and interactions the NATURAL occurrence of "life" is bound to happen no matter how great the odds.

 

The only real question is where did energy come from? Since consciousness is a process that evolved from energy over billions of years, we know that energy did not come from consciousness because consciousness is a product of energy and time.

 

Saying everything comes from God is pure idiocy, where did God come from? This answers nothing. God is a creation of mans imagination and nothing more. It is for those who can not come to terms with the fact they we don't have all the answers. I don't know where energy came from but it sure did not fart out of an imaginary supernatural consciousness floating in nothingness.

 

Interesting perspective but your statement about random chemicals just "becoming" alive is very very debatable... http://www.kingdavid8.com/CreatedUniverse.html Look about two thirds of the way down the page.

 

Also read Stephen Hawking and his theories on the Big Bang...

[Guest Guest]

Well you have quite a few inaccuracies in your post...just Google Jesus/Horus refuted and most of your points are found to be wrong...

 

Hmm... I guess the Egyption Book of the Dead is inaccurate too... Either that or the Christian zealots are lying to protect the "originality" of their Jesus.

[Guest Guest]

Hmm... I guess the Egyption Book of the Dead is inaccurate too... Either that or the Christian zealots are lying to protect the "originality" of their Jesus.

 

There are many Christians like AFC who will do about anything to protect their little cult and their myopic little view of their world. It's like expecting AFC to write something about the CC and expecting him being impartial about it.

[The Philosopher]

I don't know what Book of the Dead your reading, but 90% of those claims aren't in it...

http://www.thenazareneway.com/index_egyptain_book_dead.htm

[Guest Guest]

Thats exactly what I've been trying to tell them...they just don't seem to get it and don't offer any proof to the contrary.

 

 

=

[Guest Guest]

Thats exactly what I've been trying to tell them...they just don't seem to get it and don't offer any proof to the contrary.

=

 

 

Prove to me your god exists.

[Guest Guest]

Prove to me your god exists.

 

The same can be said to you..drove that God doesn't exist. Faith is essential...