The FBI

[ginger]

I can't think of a more ineffective organization. Their failures are HUGE failures, not little mistakes. And now this. I think congress should go through their policy and procedure manual and read with their third eye. There is obviously a disconnect.

 

[ginger]

 

[ginger]

Well. I had started with the policy and procedure manual for the N-Dex system...only because it was the first thing I had clicked on to try and make a point on twitter. 

The guy on twitter said only congress makes changes to FBI policy and procedure. Not true. Changes can be made at any time, by federal law, PRESIDENTIAL DIRECTIVE, FBI directive, and CJIS APB decisions. If you recall, President Obama made changes to the language stating the FBI couldn't use terms like ISIS, ISIL, Muslim...

I think, no changes should be allowed without congressional oversight and approval.

The second thing I notice about this document is the plethora of people who have access to it.

Sometimes a phone number comes up and I want to know who it is. Occasionally I'll click on a site that goes on to tell me for $60.00 they will tell this owners history including criminal record.

What's that, a side gig for people with access, like my former employers? Apparently your employer has access.

How's that work? The information is supposed to be "fee free".

I don't think this is the document that's going to tell me what I want to know. I'm going to read a bit further and maybe switch. There's a lot available. 

 

 

 

[ginger]

I read the whole thing. Sanctions are the penalty for the misuse of nonclassified data. That's it. So we live in a society where people at the highest levels of government aren't acting honorably...this is the bottom of the barrel data..

Moving on to FBI Ethics and Integrity Policy and Compliance Guide. I know, I know...I'm going off on a tangent but it's hard to resist. 🙂

Post edit.  Written by James Comey 2015. 

First thing, "contractors are not subject to this document." It's not binding on non employees. 

[ginger]

Interesting to note..if you're an FBI employee and you have an ethics question, there is no attorney/client privilege. I'm not sure that's a good thing. Sure there's whistle-blower laws but...hmm. I have to think about it.

[ginger]

You know, it's terribly difficult to read this without seething. In consideration of the J6 attendees, how the FBI is targeting people now who were attending the President's speech, did not enter the Capitol.  I read they are using phone data to track them all down.

First principal to ensure the public the FBI and DOJ has complete confidence in the government?

Not even close. And BTW, don't think I don't remember how Hillary Clinton had an enemy list of FBI files when she was first lady.

 

[ginger]

"Employees shall make no unauthorized commitments or promises of any kind purporting to bind the government. "

Tish James? Is she included? Department of Justice right? 

Employees shall endeavor TO AVOID any ACTIONS, creating the appearance that they are violating the law OR the code of ethics.

Does that include avoiding any LEGAL ACTIONS?

[ginger]

Classified under allowed gifts..

"Loans from banks and other financial institutions on terms generally available to the public."

We always say democrats accuse republicans of what they are actually doing. I wonder what the terms of Tish James' properties are? Is it possible she's getting a better rate due to her position?

[ginger]

Accumulated travel miles belong to the agency. 

Prohibited source equals a person who seeks to do business with a government employee. Like a lawyer? Like a lawyer seeking to get on the Get Trump team? 

Post edit..looking at that Capitol One Spark Business card belonging to Mr Wade,  introductory terms. $750 cash back if you spend $6gs in a month, inter alia. 

[ginger]

Here's an interesting question. Yes, I'm still reading...

The Ethics guide says employees who  testify in a civil or criminal matter must avoid using their official position to the benefit or detriment of the parties involved. 

Ms Willis is supposed to show up for a deposition in the Wade divorce matter. She already threatened Mrs. WADE with obstruction.

Wouldn't she be disqualified for using President Trump's case to get back at her lovers wife? Can that be taken a step in furtherance of throwing the case out? It shows she's willing to target anyone even remotely connected. 

It's microcosmic of the entire J6 agenda. 

Also, I  thought she accepted a federal grant specifically to "get Trump".

I'd like to see the paperwork on that. 

[Jacksonx3]

Fani Willis works for a county in Georgia - she has no involvement in J6.   Tish James works for New York State - she also has no involvement in J6.  Neither are bound by FBI or DOJ manuals as they don’t work for those agencies (nor do their agencies report to the White House).  Doing your own research is great but you need background knowledge to ensure that you don’t look silly.  I know that it’s unpopular these days, but I look to people who know stuff to explain things rather than starting with my opinion and then going to the internet to find something that justifies it - because it is always available even when I’m way wrong.  

[ginger]

1 hour ago, Jacksonx3 said:

Fani Willis works for a county in Georgia - she has no involvement in J6.   Tish James works for New York State - she also has no involvement in J6.  Neither are bound by FBI or DOJ manuals as they don’t work for those agencies (nor do their agencies report to the White House).  Doing your own research is great but you need background knowledge to ensure that you don’t look silly.  I know that it’s unpopular these days, but I look to people who know stuff to explain things rather than starting with my opinion and then going to the internet to find something that justifies it - because it is always available even when I’m way wrong.  

Sorry, phone screwed this up somehow.

Also..I  read Willis took a million dollar federal grant to prosecute president Trump. You'd think that would bind them to certain parameters or ethics? 

It was reported she spent some money on a NYC media company to measure how many people were paying attention to her case, prior to the drama. It was a monthly expenditure that she stopped paying for after a year or so. She owes them money.

[ginger]

I wasn't originally planning to go off on those tangents, but I would think the ethics translate. For example, medical personal, like nurses can't take gifts from patients, or their families, unless the gift is for everyone. Like pizza...Certainly not cash. The FBI can't take anything worth more than $20.00. Baseball tickets worth $60.00..can't take them. 

I'm done looking at the ethics and sometime soon, I'm going to start with operational procedure, which was my original intent. 

Just an aside..I read yesterday, somebody went looking for the mortgage agreement on Tish James loans for her $770,000 property...that was recorded with the NYC office of the register...It's Missing. The person who posted is saying she purchased the property when she was running for office in 2017.

I'm doing the best I can here, big guy! Nice to read you again. 🙂

 

Post edit.. the reason that came up...it always seems like democrats accuse Republicans of things they are actually doing..so I said, if that's the case, is there anyway to find out the terms of AG James property? Is there anyway to find out if she got favorable terms because of her position, as opposed to the loan terms offered to the general public. Apparently, people went looking...

I was just asking. I don't know a darn thing about disclosures for elected officials or FBI/DOJ staff. From what I read in the ethics paperwork, the disclosures are extensive. That's one of the rules. They can't get favorable loans that aren't offered to the general public, for anything.

[Jacksonx3]

I know that NYS has ethics laws.  People in policy making positions have to file disclosures annually.  Anything that even looks remotely like a conflict of interest (real or perceived) is problematic.  People in middle management definitely have the fear of god put into them.  The higher on the food chain, the more intense the stakes and also the scrutiny by the public.  Most folks are pretty careful - nobody wants their career torched over a free lunch from a vendor.  When the rewards get higher, sometimes people give in. There have been several high profile cases of ethics law violations in NYS.   I don’t know anything about the  preferential lending allegation, but if it can be proven it is big. That is a very big “if” though - the allegation needs to be proven! Somehow things have turned around to where anyone can make an allegation (think news talking heads just ‘asking questions”) and suddenly the accused has to prove they didn’t do it!  Anyway, even with the best ethics rules stuff still happens but when it is found it is usually dealt with harshly.   Here is the page that is applicable to NYS.  It is good bedtime reading - you’ll sleep like a baby!   NYS ethics laws and regulations   I assume the county in Georgia has a similar code as well.  Like most government silos, they are similar but each only applies to employees of that state or branch of government.  

[Solak Supporter]

9 hours ago, ginger said:

I wasn't originally planning to go off on those tangents, but I would think the ethics translate. For example, medical personal, like nurses can't take gifts from patients, or their families, unless the gift is for everyone. Like pizza...Certainly not cash. The FBI can't take anything worth more than $20.00. Baseball tickets worth $60.00..can't take them. 

I'm done looking at the ethics and sometime soon, I'm going to start with operational procedure, which was my original intent. 

Just an aside..I read yesterday, somebody went looking for the mortgage agreement on Tish James loans for her $770,000 property...that was recorded with the NYC office of the register...It's Missing. The person who posted is saying she purchased the property when she was running for office in 2017.

I'm doing the best I can here, big guy! Nice to read you again. 🙂

 

Post edit.. the reason that came up...it always seems like democrats accuse Republicans of things they are actually doing..so I said, if that's the case, is there anyway to find out the terms of AG James property? Is there anyway to find out if she got favorable terms because of her position, as opposed to the loan terms offered to the general public. Apparently, people went looking...

I was just asking. I don't know a darn thing about disclosures for elected officials or FBI/DOJ staff. From what I read in the ethics paperwork, the disclosures are extensive. That's one of the rules. They can't get favorable loans that aren't offered to the general public, for anything.

The mortgage is recorded in the County Clerk’s office in the county where the mortgaged property is located.

[ginger]

15 hours ago, Jacksonx3 said:

I know that NYS has ethics laws.  People in policy making positions have to file disclosures annually.  Anything that even looks remotely like a conflict of interest (real or perceived) is problematic.  People in middle management definitely have the fear of god put into them.  The higher on the food chain, the more intense the stakes and also the scrutiny by the public.  Most folks are pretty careful - nobody wants their career torched over a free lunch from a vendor.  When the rewards get higher, sometimes people give in. There have been several high profile cases of ethics law violations in NYS.   I don’t know anything about the  preferential lending allegation, but if it can be proven it is big. That is a very big “if” though - the allegation needs to be proven! Somehow things have turned around to where anyone can make an allegation (think news talking heads just ‘asking questions”) and suddenly the accused has to prove they didn’t do it!  Anyway, even with the best ethics rules stuff still happens but when it is found it is usually dealt with harshly.   Here is the page that is applicable to NYS.  It is good bedtime reading - you’ll sleep like a baby!   NYS ethics laws and regulations   I assume the county in Georgia has a similar code as well.  Like most government silos, they are similar but each only applies to employees of that state or branch of government.  

Oh Thank you for the link. I promise I will not be bored.

Interesting to note,  I  just read Target fired a bunch of employees for purchasing those pink Stanley cups. They didn't purchase them en masse, they purchased like one or 2. 

Target states they have a policy of employees not taking unfair advantage of the public trust for special items, like Pokémon cards or Play Stations.

The employees stated they didn't know that rule. 

Target employees FIRED. High government officials who have the power of the purse backing them..zero ethics accountability. 

Is everyone getting the big picture now? 

Post edit..one more thing..the FBI/DOJ ETHICS POLICY is the minimum standard. They expect other organizations to be more strict. 

[ginger]

13 hours ago, Solak Supporter said:

The mortgage is recorded in the County Clerk’s office in the county where the mortgaged property is located.

Thanks. It read like they were looking at their election disclosure paperwork. As mentioned, this is all new material for me. I'm asking questions ^^^ see all the question marks? 🙂

[ginger]

So turns out in Fulton County Georgia the threshold is $100.

Willis failed to disclose gifts from an independent contractor ( Wade) worth more than a c-note. The disclosures are mandatory to prevent kickbacks. There may be a criminal charge if they can prove she INTENTIALLY excluded the gifts.

For the ethics violation it's a $1000 dollar fine per instance and sanctions.

Btw, did you know there are ethics violations related to public officials getting paid for teaching and speeches? If the materials are within the purview of your position, you aren't allowed to get paid.

[ginger]

On 1/24/2024 at 5:07 PM, Jacksonx3 said:

I know that NYS has ethics laws.  People in policy making positions have to file disclosures annually.  Anything that even looks remotely like a conflict of interest (real or perceived) is problematic.  People in middle management definitely have the fear of god put into them.  The higher on the food chain, the more intense the stakes and also the scrutiny by the public.  Most folks are pretty careful - nobody wants their career torched over a free lunch from a vendor.  When the rewards get higher, sometimes people give in. There have been several high profile cases of ethics law violations in NYS.   I don’t know anything about the  preferential lending allegation, but if it can be proven it is big. That is a very big “if” though - the allegation needs to be proven! Somehow things have turned around to where anyone can make an allegation (think news talking heads just ‘asking questions”) and suddenly the accused has to prove they didn’t do it!  Anyway, even with the best ethics rules stuff still happens but when it is found it is usually dealt with harshly.   Here is the page that is applicable to NYS.  It is good bedtime reading - you’ll sleep like a baby!   NYS ethics laws and regulations   I assume the county in Georgia has a similar code as well.  Like most government silos, they are similar but each only applies to employees of that state or branch of government.  

I just started reading your link. First thing off, there are no members of the general public on the commission.

That should change. I think there should be one person per 10 million legal residents.

Post edit..um wait a minute..I thought Jcope was shut down? So I went looking..the commission was shut down by the Supreme Court because NYS needed an ammendment. That was Sept 2023. Looking for current status. 

[Jacksonx3]

One thing to consider.  If either of these prosecutors are found to have ethics issues, it may have personal consequences for them but is extremely unlikely to impact the Trump cases.  ‘“What about what they did” works well in politics and can sometimes intimidate or derail a prosecutor BEFORE a case is brought, but it has no impact on the court system.  Now that the case has been brought by the Grand Jury it would continue even if the Willis or James is replaced. The system is not centered around individuals.  Notable exception would be if there was EVIDENCE (Not allegations) that evidence in the case is fabricated or other procedural/rights violation, which I have not heard successfully argued in court at all (challenges along these lines to date have been unsuccessful).  At this point the only thing that matters is whether a jury finds him guilty or not. While the justice system isn’t perfect (ultimately it relies on human beings) it is damn good at what it does.  Time will tell.  

[ginger]

12 hours ago, Jacksonx3 said:

One thing to consider.  If either of these prosecutors are found to have ethics issues, it may have personal consequences for them but is extremely unlikely to impact the Trump cases.  ‘“What about what they did” works well in politics and can sometimes intimidate or derail a prosecutor BEFORE a case is brought, but it has no impact on the court system.  Now that the case has been brought by the Grand Jury it would continue even if the Willis or James is replaced. The system is not centered around individuals.  Notable exception would be if there was EVIDENCE (Not allegations) that evidence in the case is fabricated or other procedural/rights violation, which I have not heard successfully argued in court at all (challenges along these lines to date have been unsuccessful).  At this point the only thing that matters is whether a jury finds him guilty or not. While the justice system isn’t perfect (ultimately it relies on human beings) it is damn good at what it does.  Time will tell.  

Lol, did you see Fulton County had a power outage today? 😄 What's next? Overflowing toilet?

[larrymoeandcurly]

20 hours ago, Jacksonx3 said:

One thing to consider.  If either of these prosecutors are found to have ethics issues, it may have personal consequences for them but is extremely unlikely to impact the Trump cases.  ‘“What about what they did” works well in politics and can sometimes intimidate or derail a prosecutor BEFORE a case is brought, but it has no impact on the court system.  Now that the case has been brought by the Grand Jury it would continue even if the Willis or James is replaced. The system is not centered around individuals.  Notable exception would be if there was EVIDENCE (Not allegations) that evidence in the case is fabricated or other procedural/rights violation, which I have not heard successfully argued in court at all (challenges along these lines to date have been unsuccessful).  At this point the only thing that matters is whether a jury finds him guilty or not. While the justice system isn’t perfect (ultimately it relies on human beings) it is damn good at what it does.  Time will tell.  

So what happens when these AG and DA are out either platforming their campaign on " we are gonna get Trump" or making out right statements that arent factual?

How does that impact the cases ability to move forward through the court when you have Laticia James running on the platform of Im gonna get Trump. Weve heard this from more than one.

[Jacksonx3]

1 hour ago, larrymoeandcurly said:

So what happens when these AG and DA are out either platforming their campaign on " we are gonna get Trump" or making out right statements that arent factual?

How does that impact the cases ability to move forward through the court when you have Laticia James running on the platform of Im gonna get Trump. Weve heard this from more than one.

It is not unusual for a politician, especially for a position involving law enforcement, to run on an anti crime platform. If enough people like their views they are voted into office.   What happens then, though, is for charges to be brought the EVIDENCE they accrue must be presented to a grand jury of ordinary citizens.  If there is sufficient EVIDENCE of a crime, charges are brought in the form of an indictment.  If insufficent, no charges.  Then, if the grand jury of ordinary citizens has found sufficient EVIDENCE for an indictment, there is a trial. Here the EVIDENCE is presented to a different jury of ordinary citizens as to whether this crime was committed by this person.  This happens under strict rules of evidence, considering only “does the EVIDENCE indicate that the crime was committed”.  The defense has the role of finding flaws in that EVIDENCE.  Not considered is whether the presenter or jurors like or dislike the defendant, or what has been done by others.  The jury considers ONLY whether THAT defendant committed THAT crime.  Jurors are specifically asked during selection if they feel they can be fair, and both the prosecution and the defense have the ability to exclude potential jurors that they feel will not be able to fairly consider the case.   What works in politics (platforming, redirection, and unsupported rhetoric) is much less likely to succeed in a court, by either the prosecutor or the defendant.   As I said above, it’s not perfect as it ultimately relies on human beings, but our justice system is very good.  Support for the rule of law and the US legal system has long been a central belief of conservative politics.  Thanks for coming to my TED talk.  

[Solak Supporter]

Prosecutions against Trump have nothing to do with evidence. It’s all political. It’s all corrupt. It’s discrediting and undermining the legal system.

[Jacksonx3]

12 minutes ago, Solak Supporter said:

Prosecutions against Trump have nothing to do with evidence. It’s all political. It’s all corrupt. It’s discrediting and undermining the legal system.

Thanks, but I will rely on the legal system and the jurors to determine his guilt or innocence.  Their review of the EVIDENCE is the only view that counts.   It’s easy to make preposterous claims - including that the entire legal system is rigged and that this mass of criminality is due to political manipulation.   A crafty marketer can convince a large swath of the public that they are true with relentless marketing and repetition.  Hmm, speaking of discrediting and undermining the legal system (and every other system that relies on trust)….  Luckily, courts are set up to deal with criminals with this skill set.  My personal opinion is that the chickens are coming home to roost, but I will accept the findings of the (multiple) juries, because I believe in the institutions that have made the country great.  Things can always be improved but I do not share the opinion that we need to burn it all down for Trump to fix it.