Section 4 Football

[Guest Guest]

ME is the only team that could compete down south. (And when I say that, I mean with schools of their size) ME has a program like the southern schools do. They work out 4 times a week, have skills and agilities that the players put together during the off season, and grind all year long. I have been teacher in the distinct for 3 years now, and I've experienced what they do to win. Before my time here, I coached down in Georgia at a big public school. Kids didn't care about grades, just football there. And those kids were grown men. However the smaller schools I know for a fact would have been given a run for their money if they played last years ME team.

So you're basically confirming what others on here have said repeatedly. ME has a nice program, but even the team they had last year (which they endlessly brag about as a "team for the ages") would be no more than a team that would give a good southern program a "run for their money".

[Guest Guest]

 

I must admit that the JC program would be in much better shape right now if they had chosed Dave Robinson over Dienhard back when that went down.

JC's current coach is probably the worst in the section. You could probably name just about anyone else and get agreement they would have been a better choice. At some point, that's on the AD for allowing it to continue.

[Guest guest]

You're partly right but completely wrong in part too. From what I've seen from a distance, the ME staff is excellent and doing a lot right. I don't think that's the case for most B, A, and AA schools. There are many excellent programs at class C & D schools, it's easy to tell just by their continued success (Forks, Walton, Tioga, Sidney and others).

 

But you are completely wrong if you don't understand the advantage the ME kids have over other local schools. If you don't think stable, 2 parent homes, probably significantly higher per capita income etc etc etc doesn't make a difference you are a fool. I don't have the data but I know these communities and the average ME kid has all those advantages over the average JC kid.

 

 

Absolutely agree.

[Guest Guest]

Quit complaining, volunteer to be on the program committee next time.

it is not rocket science. Just get out an old program and copy it.

[Guest Guest]

But you are completely wrong if you don't understand the advantage the ME kids have over other local schools. If you don't think stable, 2 parent homes, probably significantly higher per capita income etc etc etc doesn't make a difference you are a fool. I don't have the data but I know these communities and the average ME kid has all those advantages over the average JC kid.

I guess I thought that would make a kid tougher? Hungrier? Good traits for a football player? Call me a fool, but if the coaching staffs switched places, I would bet in less than 2 seasons, the ME coaches at JC would be beating the JC coaches at ME. There is a blue print that is followed and the main components are dedication, commitment and hard work. Walls exist that block success. Winners and leaders go through and/ or around these walls, they don't point at them and use them as excuses for a lack of success.

[Guest guest]

I think you are probably right, my addendum/correction is that it would take a couple more years than that though, these guys start at youth, modified, and through jv. The coaching staffs have a unified plan and the kids bite. I have seen it develop, pretty amazing really. They are good athletes no doubt but the hard work and the varsity faces at youth practices etc keep the kids hungry. Say what you will but it really is a pretty remarkable program.

 

I guess I thought that would make a kid tougher? Hungrier? Good traits for a football player? Call me a fool, but if the coaching staffs switched places, I would bet in less than 2 seasons, the ME coaches at JC would be beating the JC coaches at ME. There is a blue print that is followed and the main components are dedication, commitment and hard work. Walls exist that block success. Winners and leaders go through and/ or around these walls, they don't point at them and use them as excuses for a lack of success.

[Guest Guest]

I guess I thought that would make a kid tougher? Hungrier? Good traits for a football player? Call me a fool, but if the coaching staffs switched places, I would bet in less than 2 seasons, the ME coaches at JC would be beating the JC coaches at ME. There is a blue print that is followed and the main components are dedication, commitment and hard work. Walls exist that block success. Winners and leaders go through and/ or around these walls, they don't point at them and use them as excuses for a lack of success.

From my long time observations no matter what the high school sport around here whoever is the best coach wins the most. We have seen it for years. Jack Stanbro and Sorochinsky in wrestling, Sylvester and Folli in baseball. Tarricone in basketball, Stepanoski girls soccer, Dale Cook in girls softball.

Dick Hoover was a good coach and Vestal won. Tank Anderson is a bad coach and Vestal is humiliated in football. Chuck Gottfried won championships at JC and Deinhardt looks like a dunce. The one exception is Ithaca football. I don't know if anybody could win with those obnoxious Liberal parents to deal with.

[Guest Guest]

From my long time observations no matter what the high school sport around here whoever is the best coach wins the most. We have seen it for years. Jack Stanbro and Sorochinsky in wrestling, Sylvester and Folli in baseball. Tarricone in basketball, Stepanoski girls soccer, Dale Cook in girls softball.

Dick Hoover was a good coach and Vestal won. Tank Anderson is a bad coach and Vestal is humiliated in football. Chuck Gottfried won championships at JC and Deinhardt looks like a dunce. The one exception is Ithaca football. I don't know if anybody could win with those obnoxious Liberal parents to deal with.

 

To run a successful program you have to be willing to put the time in. There are few coaches in the area who put the extra time in that is needed. I understand a coach like Dienhart (has young children) not being able to put the time in that a program needs but he should be a man and step aside due to that.

[Guest WSF]

From my long time observations no matter what the high school sport around here whoever is the best coach wins the most. We have seen it for years. Jack Stanbro and Sorochinsky in wrestling, Sylvester and Folli in baseball. Tarricone in basketball, Stepanoski girls soccer, Dale Cook in girls softball.

Dick Hoover was a good coach and Vestal won. Tank Anderson is a bad coach and Vestal is humiliated in football. Chuck Gottfried won championships at JC and Deinhardt looks like a dunce. The one exception is Ithaca football. I don't know if anybody could win with those obnoxious Liberal parents to deal with.

 

 

IMO the most important factor is talent. From my observations there are coaches who can drive a program into the ground and the potential players just don’t participate and coaches who just can’t get the best results out of the talent available. But, the bottom line is the talent.

 

ME has been blessed with an unusually large number of talented players over the last few years for a school their size and the coaches got the best out of them. My expectation is that ME will fade back into the pack in the next few years. Probably still one of the top programs, but not as dominate.

 

You brought up Ithaca, so I will use them as an example.

 

Ithaca Final State Rankings.

 

1969 8-0 #2 All Schools

1970 8-0 #1 All Schools

1971 8-0-1 #4 Large Schools [Only two ranking categories at this time]

1972 9-0 #3 Large schools

 

 

Moresco coached before 1969 and retired after the 1983 season with 155 wins. Similar to ME, but at a higher level, he just got a ton of talent during this 1969-1972 span.

 

Part of Hoovers success was that Vestal had a huge enrollment advanatage in the late 60's and 1970's and that put him in a position to succeed.

 

 

.

[Guest Guest]

I guess I thought that would make a kid tougher? Hungrier? Good traits for a football player? Call me a fool, but if the coaching staffs switched places, I would bet in less than 2 seasons, the ME coaches at JC would be beating the JC coaches at ME. There is a blue print that is followed and the main components are dedication, commitment and hard work. Walls exist that block success. Winners and leaders go through and/ or around these walls, they don't point at them and use them as excuses for a lack of success.

Maybe it would help if you read the entire post, not just the part you don't like. I acknowledged the coaches at ME have done a good job and have a good system. The JC coaching staff is horrible. But if you can't see the rest of the post and consider the merit you're either incapable or more likely, a delusional sparent of a current or former player.

 

I guess I thought that would make a kid tougher? Hungrier? Good traits for a football player?

 

You're kidding right? Are you suggesting kids from less stable and lower incomes homes should actually have an advantage? I'll accept your offer, I will call you a fool.

 

So you've found a few catchy quotes about walls and success. Nice sound bites. I'll tell you what smart guy, why don't you go watch how many kids drive home from the weight room or practice at ME or get picked up by mommy or daddy, then go watch how many at JC ride off on their bicycles or walk home. Tell me how many ME kids have their parents pay for them to go to off season camps and pay for trainers. It's a whole lot easier to be committed and dedicated when mommy or daddy knock down all the walls and you're only concern is playing a game. I don't begrudge any of it but you truly are a fool if you can't understand how all those things add up to a signficant advantage.

[Guest guest]

Maybe it would help if you read the entire post, not just the part you don't like. I acknowledged the coaches at ME have done a good job and have a good system. The JC coaching staff is horrible. But if you can't see the rest of the post and consider the merit you're either incapable or more likely, a delusional sparent of a current or former player.

 

 

You're kidding right? Are you suggesting kids from less stable and lower incomes homes should actually have an advantage? I'll accept your offer, I will call you a fool.

 

So you've found a few catchy quotes about walls and success. Nice sound bites. I'll tell you what smart guy, why don't you go watch how many kids drive home from the weight room or practice at ME or get picked up by mommy or daddy, then go watch how many at JC ride off on their bicycles or walk home. Tell me how many ME kids have their parents pay for them to go to off season camps and pay for trainers. It's a whole lot easier to be committed and dedicated when mommy or daddy knock down all the walls and you're only concern is playing a game. I don't begrudge any of it but you truly are a fool if you can't understand how all those things add up to a signficant advantage.

 

Right on and very well said.

[Guest Guest]

I guess I thought that would make a kid tougher? Hungrier? Good traits for a football player? Call me a fool, but if the coaching staffs switched places, I would bet in less than 2 seasons, the ME coaches at JC would be beating the JC coaches at ME. There is a blue print that is followed and the main components are dedication, commitment and hard work. Walls exist that block success. Winners and leaders go through and/ or around these walls, they don't point at them and use them as excuses for a lack of success.

Thank you for weighing in Coach. Nice touch on the passages you stole from the motivational book but they come across a lot better if they're original. It's kind of weird when you try to pass them off as your own though.

[Guest Guest]

 

 

IMO the most important factor is talent. From my observations there are coaches who can drive a program into the ground and the potential players just don’t participate and coaches who just can’t get the best results out of the talent available. But, the bottom line is the talent.

 

ME has been blessed with an unusually large number of talented players over the last few years for a school their size and the coaches got the best out of them. My expectation is that ME will fade back into the pack in the next few years. Probably still one of the top programs, but not as dominate.

 

You brought up Ithaca, so I will use them as an example.

 

Ithaca Final State Rankings.

 

1969 8-0 #2 All Schools

1970 8-0 #1 All Schools

1971 8-0-1 #4 Large Schools [Only two ranking categories at this time]

1972 9-0 #3 Large schools

 

 

Moresco coached before 1969 and retired after the 1983 season with 155 wins. Similar to ME, but at a higher level, he just got a ton of talent during this 1969-1972 span.

 

Part of Hoovers success was that Vestal had a huge enrollment advanatage in the late 60's and 1970's and that put him in a position to succeed.

 

 

.

 

I disagree. I am the person who said coaching is the most important. Is it a coincidence that JC football never won a thing to Gottfried got there. Gottfried wins. Gottfried leaves and they start losing again. U.E. never won much in basketball until Tarricone arrived. He had a dynasty. Tarricone leaves and U.E. stops winning titles. Folli leaves U.E. baseball and the new coach can't dupicate his success. Vestal still had numbers advantages after Hoover left. Vestal hasn't done much after Hoover left and Anderson has driven the program to rock bottom. JC never was a factor in wrestling until Stanbro turned them into a power. The younger Hoover turned Walton into a class D football power.

As I said Ithaca is an exception. Vince Lombardi would have a hard time turning that communitty into a winning team. Ithaca must have had a different bread of people in 1970 then they do today. Ithaca is bigger then almost everybody they play and they get squashed in most sports.

[Guest Guest]

 

 

IMO the most important factor is talent. From my observations there are coaches who can drive a program into the ground and the potential players just don’t participate and coaches who just can’t get the best results out of the talent available. But, the bottom line is the talent.

 

ME has been blessed with an unusually large number of talented players over the last few years for a school their size and the coaches got the best out of them. My expectation is that ME will fade back into the pack in the next few years. Probably still one of the top programs, but not as dominate.

 

You brought up Ithaca, so I will use them as an example.

 

Ithaca Final State Rankings.

 

1969 8-0 #2 All Schools

1970 8-0 #1 All Schools

1971 8-0-1 #4 Large Schools [Only two ranking categories at this time]

1972 9-0 #3 Large schools

 

 

Moresco coached before 1969 and retired after the 1983 season with 155 wins. Similar to ME, but at a higher level, he just got a ton of talent during this 1969-1972 span.

 

Part of Hoovers success was that Vestal had a huge enrollment advanatage in the late 60's and 1970's and that put him in a position to succeed.

 

 

.

 

I disagree. I am the person who said coaching is the most important. Is it a coincidence that JC football never won a thing to Gottfried got there. Gottfried wins. Gottfried leaves and they start losing again. U.E. never won much in basketball until Tarricone arrived. He had a dynasty. Tarricone leaves and U.E. stops winning titles. Folli leaves U.E. baseball and the new coach can't dupicate his success. Vestal still had numbers advantages after Hoover left. Vestal hasn't done much after Hoover left and Anderson has driven the program to rock bottom. JC never was a factor in wrestling until Stanbro turned them into a power. The younger Hoover turned Walton into a class D football power.

As I said Ithaca is an exception. Vince Lombardi would have a hard time turning that communitty into a winning team. Ithaca must have had a different bread of people in 1970 then they do today. Ithaca is bigger then almost everybody they play and they get squashed in most sports.

[Guest Guest]

 

 

IMO the most important factor is talent. From my observations there are coaches who can drive a program into the ground and the potential players just don’t participate and coaches who just can’t get the best results out of the talent available. But, the bottom line is the talent.

 

ME has been blessed with an unusually large number of talented players over the last few years for a school their size and the coaches got the best out of them. My expectation is that ME will fade back into the pack in the next few years. Probably still one of the top programs, but not as dominate.

 

You brought up Ithaca, so I will use them as an example.

 

Ithaca Final State Rankings.

 

1969 8-0 #2 All Schools

1970 8-0 #1 All Schools

1971 8-0-1 #4 Large Schools [Only two ranking categories at this time]

1972 9-0 #3 Large schools

 

 

Moresco coached before 1969 and retired after the 1983 season with 155 wins. Similar to ME, but at a higher level, he just got a ton of talent during this 1969-1972 span.

 

Part of Hoovers success was that Vestal had a huge enrollment advanatage in the late 60's and 1970's and that put him in a position to succeed.

 

 

.

 

I disagree. I am the person who said coaching is the most important. Is it a coincidence that JC football never won a thing to Gottfried got there. Gottfried wins. Gottfried leaves and they start losing again. U.E. never won much in basketball until Tarricone arrived. He had a dynasty. Tarricone leaves and U.E. stops winning titles. Folli leaves U.E. baseball and the new coach can't dupicate his success. Vestal still had numbers advantages after Hoover left. Vestal hasn't done much after Hoover left and Anderson has driven the program to rock bottom. JC never was a factor in wrestling until Stanbro turned them into a power. The younger Hoover turned Walton into a class D football power.

As I said Ithaca is an exception. Vince Lombardi would have a hard time turning that communitty into a winning team. Ithaca must have had a different bread of people in 1970 then they do today. Ithaca is bigger then almost everybody they play and they get squashed in most sports.

[Guest Guest]

 

 

IMO the most important factor is talent. From my observations there are coaches who can drive a program into the ground and the potential players just don’t participate and coaches who just can’t get the best results out of the talent available. But, the bottom line is the talent.

 

ME has been blessed with an unusually large number of talented players over the last few years for a school their size and the coaches got the best out of them. My expectation is that ME will fade back into the pack in the next few years. Probably still one of the top programs, but not as dominate.

 

You brought up Ithaca, so I will use them as an example.

 

Ithaca Final State Rankings.

 

1969 8-0 #2 All Schools

1970 8-0 #1 All Schools

1971 8-0-1 #4 Large Schools [Only two ranking categories at this time]

1972 9-0 #3 Large schools

 

 

Moresco coached before 1969 and retired after the 1983 season with 155 wins. Similar to ME, but at a higher level, he just got a ton of talent during this 1969-1972 span.

 

Part of Hoovers success was that Vestal had a huge enrollment advanatage in the late 60's and 1970's and that put him in a position to succeed.

 

 

.

 

I disagree. I am the person who said coaching is the most important. Is it a coincidence that JC football never won a thing to Gottfried got there. Gottfried wins. Gottfried leaves and they start losing again. U.E. never won much in basketball until Tarricone arrived. He had a dynasty. Tarricone leaves and U.E. stops winning titles. Folli leaves U.E. baseball and the new coach can't dupicate his success. Vestal still had numbers advantages after Hoover left. Vestal hasn't done much after Hoover left and Anderson has driven the program to rock bottom. JC never was a factor in wrestling until Stanbro turned them into a power. The younger Hoover turned Walton into a class D football power.

As I said Ithaca is an exception. Vince Lombardi would have a hard time turning that communitty into a winning team. Ithaca must have had a different bread of people in 1970 then they do today. Ithaca is bigger then almost everybody they play and they get squashed in most sports.

[Guest Guest]

On a different but similar note, it's funny that the Press makes it sound like Vestal has a chance against Bing tomorrow night because they have one kid who can run. What a joke. Should be a fun game for the Patriots though.

[Guest Guest]

Maybe it would help if you read the entire post, not just the part you don't like. I acknowledged the coaches at ME have done a good job and have a good system. The JC coaching staff is horrible. But if you can't see the rest of the post and consider the merit you're either incapable or more likely, a delusional sparent of a current or former player.

 

 

You're kidding right? Are you suggesting kids from less stable and lower incomes homes should actually have an advantage? I'll accept your offer, I will call you a fool.

 

So you've found a few catchy quotes about walls and success. Nice sound bites. I'll tell you what smart guy, why don't you go watch how many kids drive home from the weight room or practice at ME or get picked up by mommy or daddy, then go watch how many at JC ride off on their bicycles or walk home. Tell me how many ME kids have their parents pay for them to go to off season camps and pay for trainers. It's a whole lot easier to be committed and dedicated when mommy or daddy knock down all the walls and you're only concern is playing a game. I don't begrudge any of it but you truly are a fool if you can't understand how all those things add up to a signficant advantage.

Sounds like you have accounted for all the reasons why JC can't win and won't win. JC isn't better because of this...JC is to better because of that...anymore excuses?? Until you accept your disabilities and then focus on overcoming them, instead of using them as a crutch, you are doomed to fail. Does JC have multiple times for kids to lift because of summer school, jobs, or whatever? ME does. They have days all summer when the weight room is open morning and night? You know why? They eliminate excuses. Something that seems to be a specialty of yours. Their booster club helps many, many players attend camps that can't afford it. Coaches and players conduct fund raiser after fund raiser so the machine called ME football continues its success. How many fund raisers does JC have? Or is that too much work? Or is it because they ride a bike instead of get a ride to the weight room? How about you go pick them up? Or organize a car pool? It really is that hard. And lastly, ME has a staff from the modified to varsity that sees a head coach with tireless dedication that demands the same from them. You can't do it alone and you can't have different coaches year after year. Continuity is essential. Trust is essential.

[Guest Guest]

On a different but similar note, it's funny that the Press makes it sound like Vestal has a chance against Bing tomorrow night because they have one kid who can run. What a joke. Should be a fun game for the Patriots though.

 

 

I have watched Binghamton and Vestal play this season. Vestal has a even chance of winning. Binghamton is not very good. The big advantage for Binghamton will be a huge coaching edge over Tank Anderson.

[Guest Guest]

Sounds like you have accounted for all the reasons why JC can't win and won't win. JC isn't better because of this...JC is to better because of that...anymore excuses?? Until you accept your disabilities and then focus on overcoming them, instead of using them as a crutch, you are doomed to fail. Does JC have multiple times for kids to lift because of summer school, jobs, or whatever? ME does. They have days all summer when the weight room is open morning and night? You know why? They eliminate excuses. Something that seems to be a specialty of yours. Their booster club helps many, many players attend camps that can't afford it. Coaches and players conduct fund raiser after fund raiser so the machine called ME football continues its success. How many fund raisers does JC have? Or is that too much work? Or is it because they ride a bike instead of get a ride to the weight room? How about you go pick them up? Or organize a car pool? It really is that hard. And lastly, ME has a staff from the modified to varsity that sees a head coach with tireless dedication that demands the same from them. You can't do it alone and you can't have different coaches year after year. Continuity is essential. Trust is essential.

The only question I have is if you're incapable of thinking or unwilling. Probably both.

[Guest Guest]

The only question I have is if you're incapable of thinking or unwilling. Probably both.

My only question is is if your incapable of understanding or willing to know whatnot takes to be a WINNER?? Probably NOT!!

[Guest Guest]

My only question is if your capable of understanding or willing to know what it takes to be a WINNER?? Probably NOT!!

[Guest Guest]

Please read the book, "the little train that could."

[Guest Guest]

Sounds like you have accounted for all the reasons why JC can't win and won't win. JC isn't better because of this...JC is to better because of that...anymore excuses?? Until you accept your disabilities and then focus on overcoming them, instead of using them as a crutch, you are doomed to fail. Does JC have multiple times for kids to lift because of summer school, jobs, or whatever? ME does. They have days all summer when the weight room is open morning and night? You know why? They eliminate excuses. Something that seems to be a specialty of yours. Their booster club helps many, many players attend camps that can't afford it. Coaches and players conduct fund raiser after fund raiser so the machine called ME football continues its success. How many fund raisers does JC have? Or is that too much work? Or is it because they ride a bike instead of get a ride to the weight room? How about you go pick them up? Or organize a car pool? It really is that hard. And lastly, ME has a staff from the modified to varsity that sees a head coach with tireless dedication that demands the same from them. You can't do it alone and you can't have different coaches year after year. Continuity is essential. Trust is essential.

Great post. People at ME generally care more about the student-athletes than other schools do and that's that. Football at ME is a huge deal, and everyone supports it. I swear to god there is a fundraiser every other week, or camp that the booster club pays for at least some amount of the total cost. It's a different atmosphere at ME, and the kids are generally more fortunate when it comes to what they have.

[Guest Yup]

Great post. People at ME generally care more about the student-athletes than other schools do and that's that. Football at ME is a huge deal, and everyone supports it. I swear to god there is a fundraiser every other week, or camp that the booster club pays for at least some amount of the total cost. It's a different atmosphere at ME, and the kids are generally more fortunate when it comes to what they have.

JC has few if any coaches on Varsity that teach at JC and/or ever taught at JC. They have no real connection except Fred related to them or friends of family. Steve, Fred and Doug don't allow any one to do anything. If it gets done its because those 3 decided. The old guys aren't going to fund raise all Spring and Summer for these kids they have no connection to. In order to have a successful program, the kids have to buy into the program and the coaches. If the players don't, I don't care where you are, its not happening. When the kids care and they KNOW the coaches have their best interest at heart, and the majority of the coaches are 100% dedicated to the program, then those kids will ride a bike to lift or job to the school to lift and attend camp. But Fred's personality sucks and the kids don't like him as a coach or even as a person. Lastly, THEY HAVE NO HOME FIELD! You think kids are gonna bust ass all summer when they have no place to call home, a Holy Land to protect. The community is to thank for that one. Thanks for voting down that stadium. I doubt kids would have wanted to get it done to play in that stadium (sarcasm)