1979 UE Football or 1985 BHS Football Team?

[Guest Guest]

Jordan Thomas- how many track records does he hold .

 

Just the 100 and 200. The only 2 outdoor sprint records there are. Simply put makes him the fastest person our section has seen without argument.

 

Why did I not bring in all of the Rochester/Scranton/Syracuse teams that used to come in for Parkhurst? Thats easy the discussion was about the fastest local runner, not out of area guys who have come here. The Parkhurst Record book was littered with runners from all over because Mike Miller attracted a great set of teams with his UE powerhouses. (FYI talked to Miller last year at Parkhurst when Larry Hynes was honored and he openly said Thomas is the fastest UE has ever had. #2 on his list Jarvis Shields the former UE record holder in the 100. Since he coached the Norris boys and others I'll trust his word on the speed.)

 

I never said Bradford, Mack, Middlebrooks, Norris, Koban, Chrystie, Coleman, Shields, Flowers, Springer, Massar, Smith and all of the other champions of years gone by were slow, just that Thomas is the best we've ever seen locally at that stage of life.

 

[Guest Guest]

Just the 100 and 200. The only 2 outdoor sprint records there are. Simply put makes him the fastest person our section has seen without argument.

 

Why did I not bring in all of the Rochester/Scranton/Syracuse teams that used to come in for Parkhurst? Thats easy the discussion was about the fastest local runner, not out of area guys who have come here. The Parkhurst Record book was littered with runners from all over because Mike Miller attracted a great set of teams with his UE powerhouses. (FYI talked to Miller last year at Parkhurst when Larry Hynes was honored and he openly said Thomas is the fastest UE has ever had. #2 on his list Jarvis Shields the former UE record holder in the 100. Since he coached the Norris boys and others I'll trust his word on the speed.)

 

I never said Bradford, Mack, Middlebrooks, Norris, Koban, Chrystie, Coleman, Shields, Flowers, Springer, Massar, Smith and all of the other champions of years gone by were slow, just that Thomas is the best we've ever seen locally at that stage of life.

 

They'll just never get it. Thank you for your input to this post and realizing that times have changed and the athletes are getting bigger, stronger, and faster as the years go by. It has a little bit to do with human evolution, but much more to do with technical, training, and dieting evolution. I've seen my nephews put in time and effort that NONE of us put in back in the '80s in terms of nutrition and weight training just to make themselves marginal ball players. There may have been more kids back then, and I believe if you could fast forward time back then, those teams would likely be better than today's due to the odds and depth. However, it is not the case. It's the same reason Barry Bonds was a better ball player than Babe Ruth. Sure Babe Ruth had the greatest impact on the game, but Bonds was the better ball player, and there are hundreds of reasons why.

 

Let's not forget that Jamar Smith was always a half-step behind Jordan in all of his sprints a couple of years ago. The kids are simply faster now. They're also much bigger and stronger.

[Guest Guest]

This team of yours offense produced ZERO points against West Genny. Chandler Jones was a receiver who could not catch a pass.

Koban would have had Quinlivan for breakfast. Thomas was just a sophmore that year and wasn't the player he became. Greenwood was a great weight lifter who made one tackle for a loss in his career. The other recievers on that team were mediocre at best. I was referring to Art Jones as the physical specimen, not Chandler, who weighed in at 220 pounds at Defensive end.

Koban had a powefull arm. Just ask JC, who Koban launched 2 first quarter bombs to Bucci enroute to a 28-0 first quarter lead.

Nick Depoffi was a good linebacker on that team but the other two linebackers were below average. The cornerbacks on that team were very small.

 

Oh, you mean that team from outside of the area that went on to win a State Championship?!?! Thanks for proving my point. Teams today have to play real competition. So you're telling me that no one will touch '79 until they win a State Championship and go a perfect 13-0? Please, stop while you're behind. If I were a betting man, I'd bet that that '79 team wasn't the best team in the state. Maybe close, but I'm sure there was one team out there out of the 200 or so teams in NY that were better than your precious Tigers. Being 8-0 against trash competition is NOT impressive, regardless of the scores. There have been other teams who've come along and DEMOLISHED all local teams and got beat once they left the section. Quit making excuses and trying to down play how good teams are now. Chandler is All-Freshman Big East, and by one idiot U-E poster's opinion, that's the only thing that matters in determining how good a team was - what a couple of guys did AFTER U-E. Depofi would have been D1 if he cared about football. Quinlivan had a better arm than Koban. Wow, I'm so impressed that Koban threw a couple of TDs in a game 30 years ago. What the heck does that prove? Everyone knows there have been other QBs with mediocre arms who have some passing TDs. The names Renfro and Waters come to mind. Renfro ran a 4.5 40-yard dash his senior year I'm told, btw. He was LIGHTNING. Jermaine Thomas was another QB who was MUCH faster than Koban. MUCH quicker, too, and also had a lot of passing TDs. Big deal.

[Guest Guest]

I thought this was interesting. I've put together a list of the scores from the pretty good teams over the past decade or so, so you can see how good some teams were during the regular season (before State playoffs began). Pretty impressive teams I might say:

 

Binghamton '08 (11-1):

Fayetteville-Manlius - 47-23 W

Maine-Endwell - 26-18 W

Ithaca - 56-8 W

Whitesboro - 54-25 W

Vestal - 41-7 W

Union-Endicott - 41-20 W

Nottingham - 70-28 W

Horseheads - 57-31 W

Ithaca - 66-0 W

Union-Endicott - 21-20 W

Henninger - 28-20 W

Orchard Park - 21-37 L

 

This to me, is arguably the greatest team this area has ever seen. We've NEVER seen speed and athleticism at so many different positions, and so much of it at that. This team CRUSHED the area competition other than 1 close game in the championship with U-E. They also CRUSHED out of area competition and proved they could get it done away from home.

 

U-E '07 (9-2):

CBA - 27-10 W

Ithaca - 49-6 W

Binghaton - 39-35 W

Newburgh - 21-14 W

Horseheads - 32-6 W

Rochester Aquinas - 0-17 L

Vestal - 33-21 W

Vestal 27-7 W

Binghamton - 23-7 W

West Genny - 7-21 L

 

It looks like the '06 team cruised and even beat some really good out of area competition in powerhouse CBA and Newburgh, a school twice its size. Their only losses were to a private school from Rochester who recruits and the eventual State Champ. Sure they lost 2 games, but at least they proved their worth against good competition and cleaning up in area.

 

U-E '06 ():

Cicero - N. Syracuse - 7-21 L

Henninger - 13-12 W

Ithaca - 47-0 W

Horseheads - 35-7 W

Binghamton - 28-0 W

Elmira FA - 39-18 W

Newburgh - 13-17 L

Vestal - 21-7 W

Binghamton - 27-0 W

Horseheads - 35-14 W

Auburn - 39-7 L

 

Here is another example of a U-E team completely tearing apart Section 4 competition and embarassing them, but losing a few tough out of town games. Beating Henninger is a very nice accomplishment any year. Losing to a school twice its size like Newburgh by only 4 is nothing to be ashamed of, and niether is losing to Auburn, the eventual state champion. Let's not forget Auburn and C-NS, the only other U-E loss that season, played to overtime in the Section 3 championship game that year. Another great local team who got knocked down to earth in the states.

 

 

U-E '00 (10-1):

Liverpool - 18-6 W

Middletown - 25-7 W

Maine-Endwell - 34-26 W

Ithaca - 21-13 W

Elmira SS - 32-8 W

Horseheads - 25-0 W

Binghamton - 14-6 W

Vestal - 41-14 W

Elmira SS - 34-7 W

Binghamton - 33-0 W

Henninger - 14-21 L

 

I believe Binghamton's only losses that year were to U-E. I also believe Liverpool only lost 1 game that year and that was in the Sec. 3 playoffs. They beat eventual champ Henninger earlier in the year. Pretty impressive. They rolled until the Regionals and almost pulled it off!

 

I'd love to get the scores from other great teams like the 2004 Binghamton squad, or the 2002 Vestal team that beat Corcoran in the Regionals. I'm sure we can count on one thing, as these 4 seasons showed us above, and that is that usually the Champ from this area outclasses the local competition, and realizes where they truly stand once the state playoffs hit, or until they travel out of the area to take on top competition. I'm willing to bet you'd find much of the same for that '79 team. Being 8-0 and rolling your opponents is a great accomplishment, so don't take that from them! However, it's safe to say there was probably a team better than them somewhere in the state. We'll never know...

 

 

[Guest Fran Hoover Moresco]

I thought this was interesting. I've put together a list of the scores from the pretty good teams over the past decade or so, so you can see how good some teams were during the regular season (before State playoffs began). Pretty impressive teams I might say:

 

Binghamton '08 (11-1):

Fayetteville-Manlius - 47-23 W

Maine-Endwell - 26-18 W

Ithaca - 56-8 W

Whitesboro - 54-25 W

Vestal - 41-7 W

Union-Endicott - 41-20 W

Nottingham - 70-28 W

Horseheads - 57-31 W

Ithaca - 66-0 W

Union-Endicott - 21-20 W

Henninger - 28-20 W

Orchard Park - 21-37 L

 

This to me, is arguably the greatest team this area has ever seen. We've NEVER seen speed and athleticism at so many different positions, and so much of it at that. This team CRUSHED the area competition other than 1 close game in the championship with U-E. They also CRUSHED out of area competition and proved they could get it done away from home.

 

U-E '07 (9-2):

CBA - 27-10 W

Ithaca - 49-6 W

Binghaton - 39-35 W

Newburgh - 21-14 W

Horseheads - 32-6 W

Rochester Aquinas - 0-17 L

Vestal - 33-21 W

Vestal 27-7 W

Binghamton - 23-7 W

West Genny - 7-21 L

 

It looks like the '06 team cruised and even beat some really good out of area competition in powerhouse CBA and Newburgh, a school twice its size. Their only losses were to a private school from Rochester who recruits and the eventual State Champ. Sure they lost 2 games, but at least they proved their worth against good competition and cleaning up in area.

 

U-E '06 ():

Cicero - N. Syracuse - 7-21 L

Henninger - 13-12 W

Ithaca - 47-0 W

Horseheads - 35-7 W

Binghamton - 28-0 W

Elmira FA - 39-18 W

Newburgh - 13-17 L

Vestal - 21-7 W

Binghamton - 27-0 W

Horseheads - 35-14 W

Auburn - 39-7 L

 

Here is another example of a U-E team completely tearing apart Section 4 competition and embarassing them, but losing a few tough out of town games. Beating Henninger is a very nice accomplishment any year. Losing to a school twice its size like Newburgh by only 4 is nothing to be ashamed of, and niether is losing to Auburn, the eventual state champion. Let's not forget Auburn and C-NS, the only other U-E loss that season, played to overtime in the Section 3 championship game that year. Another great local team who got knocked down to earth in the states.

 

 

U-E '00 (10-1):

Liverpool - 18-6 W

Middletown - 25-7 W

Maine-Endwell - 34-26 W

Ithaca - 21-13 W

Elmira SS - 32-8 W

Horseheads - 25-0 W

Binghamton - 14-6 W

Vestal - 41-14 W

Elmira SS - 34-7 W

Binghamton - 33-0 W

Henninger - 14-21 L

 

I believe Binghamton's only losses that year were to U-E. I also believe Liverpool only lost 1 game that year and that was in the Sec. 3 playoffs. They beat eventual champ Henninger earlier in the year. Pretty impressive. They rolled until the Regionals and almost pulled it off!

 

I'd love to get the scores from other great teams like the 2004 Binghamton squad, or the 2002 Vestal team that beat Corcoran in the Regionals. I'm sure we can count on one thing, as these 4 seasons showed us above, and that is that usually the Champ from this area outclasses the local competition, and realizes where they truly stand once the state playoffs hit, or until they travel out of the area to take on top competition. I'm willing to bet you'd find much of the same for that '79 team. Being 8-0 and rolling your opponents is a great accomplishment, so don't take that from them! However, it's safe to say there was probably a team better than them somewhere in the state. We'll never know...

 

 

 

Are you all completely stupid? You can't compare this area football wise in the 70s to today. U.E., Vestal, and

Ithaca were all statewide football powers. They all graduated huge numbers. Monroe Woodbury used to be considered a small school in the 70s. Now the big three graduate about half what they used to. The balance of power SHIFTED. The local teams DESERVED their rankings. Now Monroe Woodbury graduates more kids then almost everybody else. Guess what, MW has had lofty State rankins the last decade. Graduating numbers are HUGE. U.E. 79 would have whipped anybody in the State that year. Nobody who was around then disputed that. Now we have you idiots who reason that because Sect4 AA loses in the playoffs now ( with 300 kids in a class) that they would have lost in 79. ( with close to 600 kids in a class) This is stupid irrational logic.

[Guest Guest]

Are you all completely stupid? You can't compare this area football wise in the 70s to today. U.E., Vestal, and

Ithaca were all statewide football powers. They all graduated huge numbers. Monroe Woodbury used to be considered a small school in the 70s. Now the big three graduate about half what they used to. The balance of power SHIFTED. The local teams DESERVED their rankings. Now Monroe Woodbury graduates more kids then almost everybody else. Guess what, MW has had lofty State rankins the last decade. Graduating numbers are HUGE. U.E. 79 would have whipped anybody in the State that year. Nobody who was around then disputed that. Now we have you idiots who reason that because Sect4 AA loses in the playoffs now ( with 300 kids in a class) that they would have lost in 79. ( with close to 600 kids in a class) This is stupid irrational logic.

 

No, no, are YOU completely stupid?? HOW did those teams from the 70s earn their rankings? By playing no other "powers" outside of the area? The records are no different from then to today for those teams. The difference is today's teams are forced to play out of area teams!! Please tell me how those teams EARNED their rankings without ever having to play teams from other parts of the state who were any good? They played 8, count 'em, 8 whole games against nobodies. U-E, Binghamton, Maine-Endwell, and Johnson City are STILL ranked in the polls year in and year out pretty much today, and THEY DESERVE their rankings when they beat out of area competition, as those scores show and prove. Those schools you claim were "state powers" were given that title by hearsay and hype by coaches like Hoover and Angeline. They were better "because they said so," and that still remains your argument to this veyr day. It's pathetic. No one disputed anything because it was accepted. You think Binghamton is cut off from the real world today? It was 100 times more so the case back then before technology and the internet provided information flow. You lived in little old Broome County and whatever Fran said went, and everyone believed him for whatever reason. If they were so good, they should have played REAL teams from out of the area, just like today's teams must do. No one said '79 WOULD have lost. I simply said the odds that there was a better team out there are VERY VERY HIGH. The fact is, you DON'T KNOW, and no one WILL EVER KNOW!!!! So let it go and enjoy watchin' your grand kids play.

[Guest Guest]

There were no playoffs back then and hardly any travel out of the area to play top state competition. Rankings were done by hearsay back then, and no one ever earned a thing on the field. Calling a team a state power meant nothing back then because the games were never played. For all we know, that '79 team was a very good team in this area but could have been the 50th best team for all we know. I'm not saying that's the case, but it could be. It's all up for debate, and because there was no system in place, and not even bowl games at the end of the season, we'll never truly know how good they stacked up to the rest of the state. We'll just have to listen to Fran and his boys tell us how great they were for all eternity and take their word for it...whatever.

[Guest CODY MACKLIN]

Just the 100 and 200. The only 2 outdoor sprint records there are. Simply put makes him the fastest person our section has seen without argument.

 

Why did I not bring in all of the Rochester/Scranton/Syracuse teams that used to come in for Parkhurst? Thats easy the discussion was about the fastest local runner, not out of area guys who have come here. The Parkhurst Record book was littered with runners from all over because Mike Miller attracted a great set of teams with his UE powerhouses. (FYI talked to Miller last year at Parkhurst when Larry Hynes was honored and he openly said Thomas is the fastest UE has ever had. #2 on his list Jarvis Shields the former UE record holder in the 100. Since he coached the Norris boys and others I'll trust his word on the speed.)

 

I never said Bradford, Mack, Middlebrooks, Norris, Koban, Chrystie, Coleman, Shields, Flowers, Springer, Massar, Smith and all of the other champions of years gone by were slow, just that Thomas is the best we've ever seen locally at that stage of life.

 

 

Before we even continue on with this discussion, I want everyone to know that you have absolutely ZERO credibility on the post.

 

1) You said you were at the track in Vestal in 1985 to watch Chris Coleman run 10.5(6), based on your biased input, which lacked any all true knowledge of former area athletes, other than the ones that went to UE or were playing sports in the 2000’s. You were not, you more than likely were not even born in 1985.

 

2) You had the audacity to even challenge the Notion that there were no athletes running 44.5

Or faster, that also showed your ignorance because you are saying that no one other that Jordan Thomas in the history of section 4 has run 44.5 or a 10.5/6 100 meter dash. The reason why I mentioned these athletes because they had the speed and athletic prowess to play at the D-1 level and other than what I had explained earlier why they never went to those schools , but he offers were there.

 

3) Another indication of your lie was that I never mentioned Mack, Middlebrooks, Koban, Chrystie, Shields, Flowers, Springer, Massar, or Smith. Granted Masser was also a very note worthy sprinter and comparable to the others. BUT, again I see you again included more UE athletes that were either mentioned on this board already or athletes other than Koban that did not play/run during the time I mentioned earlier. You are basing your Bull@#$ argument on a more recent timeframe that was also outside of the original premise of the topic. Then you threw in name of an athlete of (UE) today that is by fact comparably faster or as fast as the athletes of past times that I had mentioned. You only mentioned these name because you were familiar with them during your time and they were already mentioned on the board. THAT IS NOT HAVING A GRASP ON LOCAL HISTORY numbnutz!!! This was a week a$$ attempt to segue favoritism and dominance back to UE

 

To say you were at an event that took place in 1985 when it is obvious that you were not born then or went to either school.

Athletes are bigger and stronger that the athletes of the 80’s ?, I ‘m not going to waist time with. Someone had already mentioned what you stated on this board.

 

 

I have a bit of advice for you my friend put the glass pipe down and either do your research or don’t say a damn thing about topics unfamiliar to you. Because unlike you I give credit where credit is due no matter what school or athlete. I did not have to be blatantly ignorant by belching out a bulls#$# line like “I repeat never seen a sub 4.4 second 40 yard dash runner in this area” because there are athletes today in high school just like in the past that have run a sub 4.4 40 yard dash.

 

and another thing: the 400 meter dash is also a sprinting event, ALSO i read that Jordan Thomas ran a 10.6, that does put him in the top three. If he had broken the record then big up to him.

 

I’m not going to waist further time explaining the reason for that post with a misinformed and clueless half wit like you because it would be a waist of time.

 

[Guest Guest]

Before we even continue on with this discussion, I want everyone to know that you have absolutely ZERO credibility on the post.

 

1) You said you were at the track in Vestal in 1985 to watch Chris Coleman run 10.5(6), based on your biased input, which lacked any all true knowledge of former area athletes, other than the ones that went to UE or were playing sports in the 2000’s. You were not, you more than likely were not even born in 1985.

 

2) You had the audacity to even challenge the Notion that there were no athletes running 44.5

Or faster, that also showed your ignorance because you are saying that no one other that Jordan Thomas in the history of section 4 has run 44.5 or a 10.5/6 100 meter dash. The reason why I mentioned these athletes because they had the speed and athletic prowess to play at the D-1 level and other than what I had explained earlier why they never went to those schools , but he offers were there.

 

3) Another indication of your lie was that I never mentioned Mack, Middlebrooks, Koban, Chrystie, Shields, Flowers, Springer, Massar, or Smith. Granted Masser was also a very note worthy sprinter and comparable to the others. BUT, again I see you again included more UE athletes that were either mentioned on this board already or athletes other than Koban that did not play/run during the time I mentioned earlier. You are basing your Bull@#$ argument on a more recent timeframe that was also outside of the original premise of the topic. Then you threw in name of an athlete of (UE) today that is by fact comparably faster or as fast as the athletes of past times that I had mentioned. You only mentioned these name because you were familiar with them during your time and they were already mentioned on the board. THAT IS NOT HAVING A GRASP ON LOCAL HISTORY numbnutz!!! This was a week a$$ attempt to segue favoritism and dominance back to UE

 

To say you were at an event that took place in 1985 when it is obvious that you were not born then or went to either school.

Athletes are bigger and stronger that the athletes of the 80’s ?, I ‘m not going to waist time with. Someone had already mentioned what you stated on this board.

 

 

I have a bit of advice for you my friend put the glass pipe down and either do your research or don’t say a damn thing about topics unfamiliar to you. Because unlike you I give credit where credit is due no matter what school or athlete. I did not have to be blatantly ignorant by belching out a bulls#$# line like “I repeat never seen a sub 4.4 second 40 yard dash runner in this area” because there are athletes today in high school just like in the past that have run a sub 4.4 40 yard dash.

 

and another thing: the 400 meter dash is also a sprinting event, ALSO i read that Jordan Thomas ran a 10.6, that does put him in the top three. If he had broken the record then big up to him.

 

I’m not going to waist further time explaining the reason for that post with a misinformed and clueless half wit like you because it would be a waist of time.

 

That's correct knucklehead. No one has ever run times faster than Jordan. This is why he is THE RECORD HOLDER. Look it up. No one faster. Ever.

[Guest Guest]

Jordan broke Jarvis Shields' Section 4 record by running a 10.5 100 M dash. If I'm not mistaken, he ran a 10.5 twice. And for the record, idiot, a 44.5 40 is SLOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!! Learn how to use decimal points you friggin' moron!

[Guest Guest]

This is how i know youe still have ZERO credibility, Jarvis Shields never held the Sectional 100 meter record.

you think by pointing out a mistype error that it will help you gain some sort of leverage, it does not!!!

you were caught in lie and could not even provide the answers to the questions asked of you about the "Local running History"

so you kept harping on a current athlete as if what he has done was never seen before, and in the process tried to admonish any all credit due to athletes from decades past. Jordan Thomas will get and deserves prominent status among the elite runners of all times in this area no doubt. but you screwed up by speaking out of against the fact that there were athletes before your time that were Blue Chippers.....that was just plain STUPID!!!!

[Guest Guest]

This is how i know youe still have ZERO credibility, Jarvis Shields never held the Sectional 100 meter record.

you think by pointing out a mistype error that it will help you gain some sort of leverage, it does not!!!

you were caught in lie and could not even provide the answers to the questions asked of you about the "Local running History"

so you kept harping on a current athlete as if what he has done was never seen before, and in the process tried to admonish any all credit due to athletes from decades past. Jordan Thomas will get and deserves prominent status among the elite runners of all times in this area no doubt. but you screwed up by speaking out of against the fact that there were athletes before your time that were Blue Chippers.....that was just plain STUPID!!!!

 

The guy you are arguing with is not the same guy who posted about Jarvis Shields' record genius. Correct, I know nothing about track and don't follow it, but I do know what I read in the newspaper, and that was that Jordan Thomas broke Jarvis Shields' record. The FACT remains that Jordan Thomas is the record holder. No debate. No dispute. Plain fact. Deal with it.

[Guest Guest]

This is how i know youe still have ZERO credibility, Jarvis Shields never held the Sectional 100 meter record.

you think by pointing out a mistype error that it will help you gain some sort of leverage, it does not!!!

you were caught in lie and could not even provide the answers to the questions asked of you about the "Local running History"

so you kept harping on a current athlete as if what he has done was never seen before, and in the process tried to admonish any all credit due to athletes from decades past. Jordan Thomas will get and deserves prominent status among the elite runners of all times in this area no doubt. but you screwed up by speaking out of against the fact that there were athletes before your time that were Blue Chippers.....that was just plain STUPID!!!!

 

They may have been Blue Chippers in their day, but they'd be average at best now. People were slow back then compared to today. Fact. Also fact. People are smarter and more handsome now. People also have better arms. People also have better vision and hearing. People also have larger pinky toes now. It's science. Look it up.

[Guest Guest]

Before we even continue on with this discussion, I want everyone to know that you have absolutely ZERO credibility on the post.

 

1) You said you were at the track in Vestal in 1985 to watch Chris Coleman run 10.5(6), based on your biased input, which lacked any all true knowledge of former area athletes, other than the ones that went to UE or were playing sports in the 2000’s. You were not, you more than likely were not even born in 1985.

 

 

 

2) You had the audacity to even challenge the Notion that there were no athletes running 44.5

Or faster, that also showed your ignorance because you are saying that no one other that Jordan Thomas in the history of section 4 has run 44.5 or a 10.5/6 100 meter dash. The reason why I mentioned these athletes because they had the speed and athletic prowess to play at the D-1 level and other than what I had explained earlier why they never went to those schools , but he offers were there.

 

3) Another indication of your lie was that I never mentioned Mack, Middlebrooks, Koban, Chrystie, Shields, Flowers, Springer, Massar, or Smith. Granted Masser was also a very note worthy sprinter and comparable to the others. BUT, again I see you again included more UE athletes that were either mentioned on this board already or athletes other than Koban that did not play/run during the time I mentioned earlier. You are basing your Bull@#$ argument on a more recent timeframe that was also outside of the original premise of the topic. Then you threw in name of an athlete of (UE) today that is by fact comparably faster or as fast as the athletes of past times that I had mentioned. You only mentioned these name because you were familiar with them during your time and they were already mentioned on the board. THAT IS NOT HAVING A GRASP ON LOCAL HISTORY numbnutz!!! This was a week a$$ attempt to segue favoritism and dominance back to UE

 

To say you were at an event that took place in 1985 when it is obvious that you were not born then or went to either school.

Athletes are bigger and stronger that the athletes of the 80’s ?, I ‘m not going to waist time with. Someone had already mentioned what you stated on this board.

 

 

I have a bit of advice for you my friend put the glass pipe down and either do your research or don’t say a damn thing about topics unfamiliar to you. Because unlike you I give credit where credit is due no matter what school or athlete. I did not have to be blatantly ignorant by belching out a bulls#$# line like “I repeat never seen a sub 4.4 second 40 yard dash runner in this area” because there are athletes today in high school just like in the past that have run a sub 4.4 40 yard dash.

 

and another thing: the 400 meter dash is also a sprinting event, ALSO i read that Jordan Thomas ran a 10.6, that does put him in the top three. If he had broken the record then big up to him.

 

I’m not going to waist further time explaining the reason for that post with a misinformed and clueless half wit like you because it would be a waist of time.

 

1) Born in the 70's ran in the 80's and with or against many of the guys you talk about. Yes I was at the track the day Vestal and Bing went at it and Coleman ran his record time.

 

2) I have the audacity to say that no one around here has gone sub 4.4 the 40 because no one has. The inflated times that coaches football brag about from their "timed" trials are worthless and more inaccurate than can be believed. When the top NFL players can't run that time you truly think we had numerous locals doing it? Please enter reality.

 

3) Mack Binghamton, Middlebrooks Binghamton, Koban UE, Chrystie Oxford, Shields UE, Flowers Ithaca, Springer ME, Massar JC, or Smith Binghamton..when did mentioning 2 out of 9 people become UE dominant? I chose those guys because from 1980-2008 they were all elite level sprinters from the area. Mike Chrystie tied/broke the already mentioned Coleman's 100 record. He rean the same time but because his was FAT it was recognized as the new record. Austin Flowers of Ithaca set the 200m record in 89 until Massar broke it in 07. The 400 record has stood and still stands by Darren Hall of Unatego 46.99 set in 83 I believe at the State Meet..no need to mention him again I already did that in an earlier post. Our running in the early 90's was down a bit and the screwed up State Meets then (4 state champs in every event hurt competition) took away from the accomplishments.

 

I have given credit to each and every one of these great runners but they like myself have had our records surpassed by faster and better runners. Until you are coaching the kids now like I am lucky enough to be able, you wouldn't realize how much the really have improved. Our time was great for what it was but its evolution.

 

[Guest Guest]

The guy you are arguing with is not the same guy who posted about Jarvis Shields' record genius. Correct, I know nothing about track and don't follow it, but I do know what I read in the newspaper, and that was that Jordan Thomas broke Jarvis Shields' record. The FACT remains that Jordan Thomas is the record holder. No debate. No dispute. Plain fact. Deal with it.

 

The Press was partially correct Thomas broke Shields UE records. The sectional records belonged to others and Thomas has them as well.

[Guest Guest]

In the year 2000, U-E coaches timed 2 separate players at sub-4.3 40 times. I was there, and it was a joke. Coaches times are NOT the same as real times. They were actually closer to 4.5-4.6 40s.

[Guest Guest]

1) Born in the 70's ran in the 80's and with or against many of the guys you talk about. Yes I was at the track the day Vestal and Bing went at it and Coleman ran his record time.

 

2) I have the audacity to say that no one around here has gone sub 4.4 the 40 because no one has. The inflated times that coaches football brag about from their "timed" trials are worthless and more inaccurate than can be believed. When the top NFL players can't run that time you truly think we had numerous locals doing it? Please enter reality.

 

3) Mack Binghamton, Middlebrooks Binghamton, Koban UE, Chrystie Oxford, Shields UE, Flowers Ithaca, Springer ME, Massar JC, or Smith Binghamton..when did mentioning 2 out of 9 people become UE dominant? I chose those guys because from 1980-2008 they were all elite level sprinters from the area. Mike Chrystie tied/broke the already mentioned Coleman's 100 record. He rean the same time but because his was FAT it was recognized as the new record. Austin Flowers of Ithaca set the 200m record in 89 until Massar broke it in 07. The 400 record has stood and still stands by Darren Hall of Unatego 46.99 set in 83 I believe at the State Meet..no need to mention him again I already did that in an earlier post. Our running in the early 90's was down a bit and the screwed up State Meets then (4 state champs in every event hurt competition) took away from the accomplishments.

 

I have given credit to each and every one of these great runners but they like myself have had our records surpassed by faster and better runners. Until you are coaching the kids now like I am lucky enough to be able, you wouldn't realize how much the really have improved. Our time was great for what it was but its evolution.

 

Right on!!!!! Thanks for giving the facts to us and using rationale while posting. A breath of fresh air.

[Guest Guest]

Thank You Track and Field afficionados ... Good info and a good read (even the point and counterpoint - "Jane you ignorant slut" ...). Now - back the the issue at hand : That FOOSBALL is the devil !!!

 

Be it 79 UE or 85 BHS, any team can only be measured by it's performance against the competition in that given season. I will concede that today's athletes are marginally bigger and marginally faster than those of 25-30 years ago. But to me - that's like the global warming argument. The average tempature has gone up a half of a degree over the last 50 years or so - WOO HOO - big frickin deal !!! To discount teams of the 70s & 80s merely based on that factor is both shortsighted and ignorant.

 

So please - enough with the "grandpa", etc comments. It's weak and adds no credence to your argument.

 

All I can go by is the eye test - and having watched and followed local football for the past 35 years plus - I believe that the BHS 85' squad was the finest collection of talent ever put together out of this area, with the UE 79 squad coming in a close second. Honorable mention to the BHS 2008 team - as they are the only AA team to ever make a good run in the state playoffs (Yes - I believe both BHS 85 & UE 79 would have been AA State Champions had there been Playoffs back then).

 

Others by era - Vestal & ME of the 70s, JC - 80s, UE - 90s & 2000s, and several CF teams of 2000s deserve mentioning too ...

[27 Time World Champions]

Thank You Track and Field afficionados ... Good info and a good read (even the point and counterpoint - "Jane you ignorant slut" ...). Now - back the the issue at hand : That FOOSBALL is the devil !!!

 

Be it 79 UE or 85 BHS, any team can only be measured by it's performance against the competition in that given season. I will concede that today's athletes are marginally bigger and marginally faster than those of 25-30 years ago. But to me - that's like the global warming argument. The average tempature has gone up a half of a degree over the last 50 years or so - WOO HOO - big frickin deal !!! To discount teams of the 70s & 80s merely based on that factor is both shortsighted and ignorant.

 

So please - enough with the "grandpa", etc comments. It's weak and adds no credence to your argument.

 

All I can go by is the eye test - and having watched and followed local football for the past 35 years plus - I believe that the BHS 85' squad was the finest collection of talent ever put together out of this area, with the UE 79 squad coming in a close second. Honorable mention to the BHS 2008 team - as they are the only AA team to ever make a good run in the state playoffs (Yes - I believe both BHS 85 & UE 79 would have been AA State Champions had there been Playoffs back then).

 

Others by era - Vestal & ME of the 70s, JC - 80s, UE - 90s & 2000s, and several CF teams of 2000s deserve mentioning too ...

 

Good job. I enjoyed reading your post and I think you summed it up perfectly.

 

[Guest Guest]

Thank You Track and Field afficionados ... Good info and a good read (even the point and counterpoint - "Jane you ignorant slut" ...). Now - back the the issue at hand : That FOOSBALL is the devil !!!

 

Be it 79 UE or 85 BHS, any team can only be measured by it's performance against the competition in that given season. I will concede that today's athletes are marginally bigger and marginally faster than those of 25-30 years ago. But to me - that's like the global warming argument. The average tempature has gone up a half of a degree over the last 50 years or so - WOO HOO - big frickin deal !!! To discount teams of the 70s & 80s merely based on that factor is both shortsighted and ignorant.

 

So please - enough with the "grandpa", etc comments. It's weak and adds no credence to your argument.

 

All I can go by is the eye test - and having watched and followed local football for the past 35 years plus - I believe that the BHS 85' squad was the finest collection of talent ever put together out of this area, with the UE 79 squad coming in a close second. Honorable mention to the BHS 2008 team - as they are the only AA team to ever make a good run in the state playoffs (Yes - I believe both BHS 85 & UE 79 would have been AA State Champions had there been Playoffs back then).

 

Others by era - Vestal & ME of the 70s, JC - 80s, UE - 90s & 2000s, and several CF teams of 2000s deserve mentioning too ...

 

 

 

Don't forget about UE 89- ithin they are the third best team over BHS 2008. they beat MW in a regional- today's quarterfinal 56-13. You cannot dispute them and their high powered offesne behind jarvis SHield.

 

1. UE 79 and bhs 85 teid for first

3. UE 89

[Guest Guest]

Was that 89 team the one with Paulie Norris ?

 

If so - I agree, a very talented team, certainly worthy of notation in this discussion.

[Guest Guest]

Don't forget about UE 89- ithin they are the third best team over BHS 2008. they beat MW in a regional- today's quarterfinal 56-13. You cannot dispute them and their high powered offesne behind jarvis SHield.

 

1. UE 79 and bhs 85 teid for first

3. UE 89

 

Could be, but I'm going with '08 Binghamton, who also won a regional over a much better opponent in Henninger. Back in '89 MW and the rest of Section 9 were totally awful in football. MW didn't start getting decent until this decade when their enrollment jumped. I do believe U-E '89 and Binghamton '08 could be debated the same way U-E '79 and BHS '85 are. Both very comparable with a lot of team speed on offense.

 

A few people have mentioned the U-E team from 2000 as one of the teams at least worth noting. In my opinion they're probably Top 10, but there are a few other teams that were better, obviously the one's mentioned. However, I do think the fashion in which they won was the most impressive of any of the Championship teams in the sense that they played Iron Man football with only 12-13 guys. This is the reason they can't be mentioned as one of the absolute best, because they had zero depth what-so-ever. However, the fact that they played the same 9-10 guys on both offense and defense with none of them coming off the field save for the quarterback is astonishing with the way football is today. Their offense and defensive line-ups were mirror images, and even still, they put 9 guys on the Division 1 All-Star team and 6 guys on the All-Metro team, and in reality probably should have been closer to 8 or 9 if the Press solely went with the Top players from the area and not tried to spread the wealth around to cover each and every school. Not the best team by any means, but certainly top 10, and the fashion in which they went 10-0 was unbelievable and really unheard of in New York's largest enrollment class.

[Guest Guest]

I'd also like to add that while a few posters have sort of hi-jacked this thread and turned it into a pissing competition, I think it's been great to read about the great teams of the area over the past 30 or so years. There are a lot of teams to be proud of and I think it's great that they were all "honored" in this thread. However, I'd like to add that in nearly 15 years of state playoffs, no school from section 4's largest enrollment class has ever won a state championship while actually having to win it on the field. The only state champs ever were by rankings and rankings alone. I think that speaks a lot about those rankings. I don't think it's coincidence that Section 4 has lost its luster to the rest of the state since the state playoffs began. To blame this solely on enrollment is just a sorry excuse to me. Programs with the reputations of Binghamton, Vestal, and Union-Endicott state-wide should always reload no matter the enrollment. This makes me lean toward the "hype" when speaking of teams before the state playoffs. It seems to me that it was all hearsay, and once Section 4 was exposed to the rest of the state, they immediately came back down to earth and realized, "hey, there ARE teams better than us out there. I'll be d@mned."

[Guest Guest]

I'd also like to add that while a few posters have sort of hi-jacked this thread and turned it into a pissing competition, I think it's been great to read about the great teams of the area over the past 30 or so years. There are a lot of teams to be proud of and I think it's great that they were all "honored" in this thread. However, I'd like to add that in nearly 15 years of state playoffs, no school from section 4's largest enrollment class has ever won a state championship while actually having to win it on the field. The only state champs ever were by rankings and rankings alone. I think that speaks a lot about those rankings. I don't think it's coincidence that Section 4 has lost its luster to the rest of the state since the state playoffs began. To blame this solely on enrollment is just a sorry excuse to me. Programs with the reputations of Binghamton, Vestal, and Union-Endicott state-wide should always reload no matter the enrollment. This makes me lean toward the "hype" when speaking of teams before the state playoffs. It seems to me that it was all hearsay, and once Section 4 was exposed to the rest of the state, they immediately came back down to earth and realized, "hey, there ARE teams better than us out there. I'll be d@mned."

 

 

 

ENROLLMENT is everything. 600 kid graduating classes in most years will do better then 300 kid graduating classes.

When Sec4 AA had the big enrollments state playoffs did not exist. Because they have not won in the last 15 years is a totally meaningless argument as to how they would have fared in the 1965-1982 period.

Rome used to be much bigger and a Sect 3 power. Monroe Woodbury was much smaller. Now they reversed enrollments and reversed rolls.

 

 

Webster was a superpower when they were the largest district in the State. They split into two schools and have not been the same since. This is very simple and if somebody can't figure that out they have a problem with reasoning.

[Guest Guest]

A decent post until this little gem ...

 

"To blame this solely on enrollment is just a sorry excuse to me."

 

I don't believe that anyone is basing their point SOLELY ON ENROLLMENT, but to call it a sorry excuse renders your post both lame and dismissable.

 

It can not be argued - Enrollment is a huge factor here. In support of local teams since the onset of the State Playoffs, I submit that Section IV's poor record in Class AA is primarily due to the large enrollment discrpancy that our 3-4 AA teams face when they leave the section. Back in the 70s and 80s, that was not the case. As a matter of fact - I believe the A & B class teams from that era would have performed even better in the State Playoffs because they were regularly playing AAs locally who were much better (again based on enrollment) during the 9 game season.

 

We will never know - of course - but the #s are the best argument going.