12 shots fired at Wilson

[WolfMan]

Thank You Bing and others who can think independently and not just eat whats served to us.

 

I appriciate that you and others are keeping an open mind about the tradgic incident that we all have to remember and wonder.

.

Many here, including yourself at times, are anything BUT keeping an open mind about this.

 

Your post about when the Police Chief arrived, while not stating a point, certainly insinuated his arrival seemed unduly delayed. As Mickey13905 stated, there could be hundreds of reasons for him showing up 30 minutes after the shooting.

 

Others crucified him here for the "it is what it is" statement, which was just two seconds of a lot he stated that day, all under stress, all on the verge of tears. Did THEY have an open mind? Did Ginny with her insipid YouTube video of it? No!

 

Others have questioned the response time of the JC police to the scene. The media reports that they arrived 3 minutes after the call was taken. That's not bad considering where the various cars could have been. Did those accusers have an open mind?

 

I am not saying Chief Z is perfect, but he's been getting crucified here of late (of course even before Monday's tragedy) and while some may be warranted, it seems obvious to me some may not, especially by those that criticize everything.

 

"we all have to remember and wonder." Could not agree more, but a Rush To Judgement is a horrible thing to do and many here have been doing it this week and in recent weeks on other "issues" mentioned here.

 

As usual, with all due respect, but disagreeing on some points.

[WolfMan]

 

I have heard of strokes causing psychotic episodes and violent behavior

.

I have too. Along with aneurisms and the like. Assuming a full autopsy was performed, maybe it'll reveal some sudden medical issue that will help the police and families involved get at least some understand of a "why".

[KINGOFBING]

.

Many here, including yourself at times, are anything BUT keeping an open mind about this.

 

Your post about when the Police Chief arrived, while not stating a point, certainly insinuated his arrival seemed unduly delayed. As Mickey13905 stated, there could be hundreds of reasons for him showing up 30 minutes after the shooting.

 

Others crucified him here for the "it is what it is" statement, which was just two seconds of a lot he stated that day, all under stress, all on the verge of tears. Did THEY have an open mind? Did Ginny with her insipid YouTube video of it? No!

 

Others have questioned the response time of the JC police to the scene. The media reports that they arrived 3 minutes after the call was taken. That's not bad considering where the various cars could have been. Did those accusers have an open mind?

 

I am not saying Chief Z is perfect, but he's been getting crucified here of late (of course even before Monday's tragedy) and while some may be warranted, it seems obvious to me some may not, especially by those that criticize everything.

 

"we all have to remember and wonder." Could not agree more, but a Rush To Judgement is a horrible thing to do and many here have been doing it this week and in recent weeks on other "issues" mentioned here.

 

As usual, with all due respect, but disagreeing on some points.

 

I'm not even going to comment.

 

I've been told you can't disagree with Wolfman on this board, because anything he doesn't agree with he cries, complains and calls Garo about.

[Ginny Weedon]

Well jeez! There was a thread about five words, so I called a friend who recorded the news conference and asked her to confirm they were said, and send them to me if she could.

 

So I uploaded it. Sorry for trying to HELP!

[WolfMan]

Well jeez! There was a thread about five words, so I called a friend who recorded the news conference and asked her to confirm they were said, and send them to me if she could.

 

So I uploaded it. Sorry for trying to HELP!

.

Trying to HELP? Really? Five words out of I dunno, a thousand he said? You posted that video with (I forget which) that you were shocked or appalled he said it. You posted just five of his words totally out of context by leaving out all else he said. The man was hurting (like everyone else) and moreso than most as he was dealing with it. As sad as we all were he was there and saw his comrade fighting for and ultimately lose his life.

 

How DARE you call upon those five words alone at a time like this in your (and others here) ever present quest on this forum to besmirch him at every possible opportunity. How dare you!

 

Do you even know the multiple meanings of that term "it is what it is"?

 

It is NOT a callous statement. Christ, and I swear on her grave, I said it when talking to my cousin 5 years ago when she asked how I was dealing with the sudden loss of my mother. It is not a disprespectful statement. It helps convey ones feeling of...at times, helplessness, which in part is how I read Chief Z's use of it. I can't think of a better word right now (than "helplessness") although I am sure there is a better one, but it's basically a meaning of not much (more) one can do, which is what I meant when I used it.

 

Do you all really think of Chief Zikuski as being callous, uncaring etc in regards to what transpired on Monday? Just about ALL of the statements on this forum since Monday doing just that pretty much make me sick to my stomach. I have been totally incredulous when reading some of it.

 

The man may be guilty of some things said in the weeks before Monday (and might not be), but much of the stuff stated against him here SINCE Monday in regards to his uncaring is total garbage.

[mickey13905]

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Trying to HELP? Really? Five words out of I dunno, a thousand he said? You posted that video with (I forget which) that you were shocked or appalled he said it. You posted just five of his words totally out of context by leaving out all else. The man was hurting (like everyone else) and moreso than most as he was dealing with it. As sad as we all were he was there and saw his comrade fighting for his life.

How DARE you call upon those five words alone in your (and others) ever present quest on this forum to besmirch him at every possible opportunity. How dare you!

Do you even know the multiple meanings of that term "it is what it is"?

It is NOT a callous statement. Christ, and I swear on her grave, I said it when talking to my cousin 5 years ago when she asked how I was dealing with the sudden loss of my mother. It is not a disprespectful statement. It helps convey ones feeling of...at times, helplessness, which in part is how I read Chief Z's use of it. I can't think of a better word right now (than "helplessness") although I am sure there is a better one, but it's basically a meaning of not much (more) one can do, which is what I meant when I used it.

Do you all really think of Chief Zikuski as being callous, uncaring etc in regards to what transpired on Monday? Just about ALL of the statements on this forum since Monday doing just that pretty much make me sick to my stomach. I have been totally incredulous when reading some of it.

The man may be guilty of some things said in the weeks before Monday (and might now be), but much of the stuff stated against him here SINCE Monday in regards to his uncaring is total garbage.

Couldn't put it any better. I rarely post anymore, yet still read on here. I have little to no interest in the near daily attacks that are constantly pinned regarding Chief Zikuski. I have never gone on to defend him nor attack him. Essentially I have no dog in that fight. But when people use the events of yesterday to continue their nitpicking, I found it appalling.

[KINGOFBING]

.

Trying to HELP? Really? Five words out of I dunno, a thousand he said? You posted that video with (I forget which) that you were shocked or appalled he said it. You posted just five of his words totally out of context by leaving out all else. The man was hurting (like everyone else) and moreso than most as he was dealing with it. As sad as we all were he was there and saw his comrade fighting for his life.

 

How DARE you call upon those five words alone in your (and others) ever present quest on this forum to besmirch him at every possible opportunity. How dare you!

 

Do you even know the multiple meanings of that term "it is what it is"?

 

It is NOT a callous statement. Christ, and I swear on her grave, I said it when talking to my cousin 5 years ago when she asked how I was dealing with the sudden loss of my mother. It is not a disprespectful statement. It helps convey ones feeling of...at times, helplessness, which in part is how I read Chief Z's use of it. I can't think of a better word right now (than "helplessness") although I am sure there is a better one, but it's basically a meaning of not much (more) one can do, which is what I meant when I used it.

 

Do you all really think of Chief Zikuski as being callous, uncaring etc in regards to what transpired on Monday? Just about ALL of the statements on this forum since Monday doing just that pretty much make me sick to my stomach. I have been totally incredulous when reading some of it.

 

The man may be guilty of some things said in the weeks before Monday (and might not be), but much of the stuff stated against him here SINCE Monday in regards to his uncaring is total garbage.

 

Ginny (and everyone else),

 

Don't respond!

 

Wolfman likes to cry and complain to Garo, via private message and phone call, when everything on this site doesn't go 100% his way. It will likely result in your comments eventually being deleted.

[WolfMan]

 

Ginny (and everyone else),

 

Don't respond!

 

Wolfman likes to cry and complain to Garo, via private message and phone call, when everything on this site doesn't go 100% his way. It will likely result in your comments eventually being deleted.

.

OK, whatever, LOL.

 

I've called Garo ONCE, and left a message. He's called me a few times, usually about technical forum stuff, or guest vs "no guests" etc. I think all told we've talked two or three times on the phone, he's left voicemail a few times.

 

The time I called him it was about a post of mine that was deleted by a mod. He agreed with me and put it back.

 

I did text him once before that about a mod in particular.

 

I NEVER asked him to delete a post. It never crossed my mind. I do however seem to recall once there was a post he should check out. It had zip to do with me..

 

As for your previous "no comment" post today and "you can't disagree with Wolfman"...really? Just today in this very thread I stated "you may disagree and that is fine" and I did similarly in a previous thread this week. Have done it several times. I think we all expect others to disagree with whatever we say. It's natural. It's what makes a discussion forum a discussion forum.

 

All in all, my basic feelings about this place is, overall many here all too often do not see that there can be two sides to a story/issue. Or what they show as "proof" is not really proof, at least not as presented.

 

Oh, and while on that point ("Or what they show as "proof" is not really proof")...I've often called Garo up on the carpet here, including once or twice in this very thread, and a couple other threads in the past week. (so even if I had ever "gone crying to him", I'd not be inclined to do so now.)

 

In other words, as far as your words I quoted you got it all wrong. Feel free to disagree, I won't mind at all. :-)

 

W

 

P.S. You also stated in another reply "I've been told you can't disagree with Wolfman on this board, because anything he doesn't agree..." . That's part of my problem with many here. They totally believe much of what others say about people here, either of fellow posters or people under discussion here (i.e. local politicians, media personnel, doctors, businesses etc). I take much of what I read here with a grain of salt. Others do too, but many more should.

 

 

[BinghamtonBill]

Play nice folks!

 

I feel bad for Chief Joe Z as I do for the entire local law enforcement community. Quite frankly what happened this week is a thing of nightmares.

 

But I also standby what I've WRITTEN on this forum regarding the conduct of Chief Joe Z, which I (along with most) have learned about from the officers who serve under him. The tragic loss of Officer Smith doesn't erase all that. And to call into question the validity of those things, simply because you have empathy for Chief Joe Z's situation this week, is unfair.

 

I hope Chief Joe Z is able to lead the JCPD effectively and guide them through this terrible tragedy. But I also hope he's eventually held responsible for his conduct.

[Dragon]

 

Ginny (and everyone else),

 

Don't respond!

 

Wolfman likes to cry and complain to Garo, via private message and phone call, when everything on this site doesn't go 100% his way. It will likely result in your comments eventually being deleted.

Anybody heard from my cousin Smelly ?

[KINGOFBING]

Play nice folks!

 

I feel bad for Chief Joe Z as I do for the entire local law enforcement community. Quite frankly what happened this week is a thing of nightmares.

 

But I also standby what I've WRITTEN on this forum regarding the conduct of Chief Joe Z, which I (along with most) have learned about from the officers who serve under him. The tragic loss of Officer Smith doesn't erase all that. And to call into question the validity of those things, simply because you have empathy for Chief Joe Z's situation this week, is unfair.

 

I hope Chief Joe Z is able to lead the JCPD effectively and guide them through this terrible tragedy. But I also hope he's eventually held responsible for his conduct.

 

Well, said Bill! You're one of the best here at BCV.

[The Wanker]

One thing that Z said that I can't quote but it struck me as very odd.

 

He commented that "we'll never know" or words to that effect regarding knowing how Clark was able to get the gun. Granted, if there was a dashcam on it wouldn't have gotten that part of what happened.

 

There are three parking lots surrounding the spot where this happened. 30 Harrison, STI and the UHS lot across the street. Throw in the Decker Center entrance, too for good measure.

 

Wouldn't there possibly be video of parking lots and the entryways to 30 Harrison or Decker?

 

I found out later in the day that I'm related to officer Smith and never knew it, or him. That makes his death a bit more personal and upsetting to me.

 

According to what little has been released about Clark, there's either something major the investigation has yet to uncover or there are details about him that haven't yet been released.

 

It is extremely rare that a normal, intelligent man shows up for work one day ranting about bombs, attacks a cop and shoots him in the head. It just doesn't happen.

 

His actions seem to indicate a pyschotic break, but those almost never just happen to that extreme without some sort of prior strange behavior.

 

His presumed attack of Officer Smith and the fact that he did not throw down the weapon when responding officers ordered him to almost seems to me to have a feeling of Suicide by Cop to it.

 

We may never find out what was going through Clark's mind.

[Bingoloid]

Do you all really think of Chief Zikuski as being callous, uncaring etc in regards to what transpired on Monday? Just about ALL of the statements on this forum since Monday doing just that pretty much make me sick to my stomach. I have been totally incredulous when reading some of it.

 

I think we all have some strong feelings about the incredibly disturbing thing that happened here, so I'm trying to make a point of being careful with my words and separating my opinions about Zikuski from this incident. I do feel bad for reacting with anger on that other thread, and knew it was unfair after I'd slept on it. There's a lot of frustration here, and if you already think poorly of him, it's easy to see his remarks in an unflattering way. I certainly wouldn't go so far as to think he doesn't care, though. This is crushing for everyone, and it must have been a terrible day for him.

[PeteMoss]

Was Officer Smith left handed or right handed?

[Dolphin Girl]

.

Many here, including yourself at times, are anything BUT keeping an open mind about this.

 

Your post about when the Police Chief arrived, while not stating a point, certainly insinuated his arrival seemed unduly delayed. As Mickey13905 stated, there could be hundreds of reasons for him showing up 30 minutes after the shooting.

 

Others crucified him here for the "it is what it is" statement, which was just two seconds of a lot he stated that day, all under stress, all on the verge of tears. Did THEY have an open mind? Did Ginny with her insipid YouTube video of it? No!

 

Others have questioned the response time of the JC police to the scene. The media reports that they arrived 3 minutes after the call was taken. That's not bad considering where the various cars could have been. Did those accusers have an open mind?

 

I am not saying Chief Z is perfect, but he's been getting crucified here of late (of course even before Monday's tragedy) and while some may be warranted, it seems obvious to me some may not, especially by those that criticize everything.

 

"we all have to remember and wonder." Could not agree more, but a Rush To Judgement is a horrible thing to do and many here have been doing it this week and in recent weeks on other "issues" mentioned here.

 

As usual, with all due respect, but disagreeing on some points.

Could not have said it any better! We are definitely on the same page on many issues Wolf!

[binghamtonian]

One thing that Z said that I can't quote but it struck me as very odd.

 

He commented that "we'll never know" or words to that effect regarding knowing how Clark was able to get the gun. Granted, if there was a dashcam on it wouldn't have gotten that part of what happened.

 

There are three parking lots surrounding the spot where this happened. 30 Harrison, STI and the UHS lot across the street. Throw in the Decker Center entrance, too for good measure.

 

Wouldn't there possibly be video of parking lots and the entryways to 30 Harrison or Decker?

 

A couple of cops I know, none being JC cops though, have privately mentioned that they feel that it's not being brought into light right now because it may cast a negative light onto Smith's actions. One even said it may have been preventable. Now they've both admitted that it's pure conjecture on their part, but they're coming to the same deductions after talking to other people.

 

You'd think with the dashcam, and all the other building around it there would be a good camera angle. Hopefully we learn more in the future.

[uncle Festus]

I have watched an awful lot of crime shows on TV, and I think I may have an idea what made James Clark go crazy. ILLEGAL DRUGS! Are any of you aware that those things are a terrible epidemic in this country? I'm quite sure that I have seen crime shows where virtually the same thing has happened elsewhere: that is that someone took some kind of hallucinogen and imagined that they were fighting a dangerous "enemy", be it a police officer or someone else. Clark's psychotic behavior gives every indication (to me at least), that he was under the influence of one of these mind altering drugs. From what I've read, they can do just about unbelievable things to people's minds!!!!!! This is no more than an idea I have as to what may have been the cause of this tragedy, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if this was the answer.

[JoeTheDrunk]

 

A couple of cops I know, none being JC cops though, have privately mentioned that they feel that it's not being brought into light right now because it may cast a negative light onto Smith's actions. One even said it may have been preventable. Now they've both admitted that it's pure conjecture on their part, but they're coming to the same deductions after talking to other people.

 

You'd think with the dashcam, and all the other building around it there would be a good camera angle. Hopefully we learn more in the future.

 

 

He was caught off guard. Didn't even know the guy was running towards the car.

There should be two offiers in each car.

[SouthSider09]

 

 

He was caught off guard. Didn't even know the guy was running towards the car.

There should be two offiers in each car.

Two cops in every car is a great idea.........but then as soon as it's proposed everybody will B##CH and complain because it will force their taxes to go up and nobody wants that. So instead it will stay at one cop per car like it is now and has been for a while.

[WolfMan]

Two cops in every car is a great idea.........but then as soon as it's proposed everybody will B##CH and complain because it will force their taxes to go up and nobody wants that. So instead it will stay at one cop per car like it is now and has been for a while.

.

Yeah, it would be a great move, but you are right with the latter half of your statement.

 

Didn't some of the local PDs have 2 per car somewhat recently (within the last say, 15 years) during the night shifts? Of course violent crime can occur at any time of the day (like 7:03am last Monday), but I do seem to recall 2-per-car locally during the night shifts when crime is statistically higher. Am I remembering wrong?

[SouthSider09]

.

Yeah, it would be a great move, but you are right with the latter half of your statement.

 

Didn't some of the local PDs have 2 per car somewhat recently (within the last say, 15 years) during the night shifts? Of course violent crime can occur at any time of the day (like 7:03am last Monday), but I do seem to recall 2-per-car locally during the night shifts when crime is statistically higher. Am I remembering wrong?

I think you are correct, I believe it was when they patrolled downtown by the bars and what not.

 

They also have 2 in a car when they are doing training for the new officers

[Bingoloid]

A couple of cops I know, none being JC cops though, have privately mentioned that they feel that it's not being brought into light right now because it may cast a negative light onto Smith's actions. One even said it may have been preventable. Now they've both admitted that it's pure conjecture on their part, but they're coming to the same deductions after talking to other people.

 

You'd think with the dashcam, and all the other building around it there would be a good camera angle. Hopefully we learn more in the future.

 

Since you mentioned this, these are the things I've been wondering about:

 

1) I am not sure what it means that Clark "leaned in" to the car to attack Smith before Smith got out. Was Smith's window rolled down all the way, was his door left open while he was looking at paperwork or using the radio, was he just opening the door at the precise moment Clark reached his car, or did Clark actually open an unlocked door? It was probably still below freezing, so I'm supposing that the door/window wasn't left wide open for any considerable period of time.

 

2) The reports on the incident say that Clark was yelling incoherently and waving his arms while he ran toward the car. It seems to me that this would be hard to miss, unless Smith was bundled up: windows up, doors closed, radio chatter. Checking one's surroundings before opening the door, just as anyone might when parked streetside to make sure an oncoming car wasn't going to rip their door off, I would think you'd spot this person coming at you. If he saw Clark coming, though, he may have thought Clark was coming to ask for help, and not recognized any danger in opening the door before he was sure who this person was.

 

3) I've never carried a weapon on my person in a car, but I would think a pistol in a good retention holster on one's side would be difficult for Smith to draw while seated, especially while grappling with a lunatic, and that it would be all but impossible for Clark to get it out. Is it possible that it was already out or not locked in place for some unrelated reason and, in hindsight, should not have been, or were the retention devices on Smith's holster perhaps inadequate or poorly designed such that the model is not reliable enough for police officers?

 

I am not suggesting that Smith must have broken a rule or made an error. He may have done everything he knew was right, without ever realizing that *this* particular bizarre scenario was something he had to worry about. I'm just hoping that maybe there are a few simple protocols that can come out of this and be taught as best practices in the future so that it doesn't happen to anyone else.

[Independent]

Most of you don't see the bigger picture. Chief Z is nothing more than a HYPOCRITE who is using this as cover to his indiscretions. He has his men (officers) pull people over for DWI while he leaves bar's all over the county and Pa. DRUNK and drives home.

How do you think this affects resident's lives when they have to deal with a DWI and all the legal issues?

When the Chief of police gets a FREE PASS? That's BS and you all know it! I with my own eyes have seen him many times Drunk and getting into his City Vehicle and drive away. Who's going to pull him over?

So it's ok for this POS to get away with it but the poor people who haven't had an accident and had a few (2) drinks at a family or friends party driving home get the shaft? I'm sorry it doesn't fly in my book!

 

The guy has no conscience! Did he have a conscience when he was going around banging other officers wives? How can he look them in the eye!

[binghamtonian]

I'm sorry, but that has nothing to do with what happened earlier this week. it's fair to criticize him for those things, but not in respect to the shooting.

[binghamtonian]

 

 

Since you mentioned this, these are the things I've been wondering about:

 

1) I am not sure what it means that Clark "leaned in" to the car to attack Smith before Smith got out. Was Smith's window rolled down all the way, was his door left open while he was looking at paperwork or using the radio, was he just opening the door at the precise moment Clark reached his car, or did Clark actually open an unlocked door? It was probably still below freezing, so I'm supposing that the door/window wasn't left wide open for any considerable period of time.

 

2) The reports on the incident say that Clark was yelling incoherently and waving his arms while he ran toward the car. It seems to me that this would be hard to miss, unless Smith was bundled up: windows up, doors closed, radio chatter. Checking one's surroundings before opening the door, just as anyone might when parked streetside to make sure an oncoming car wasn't going to rip their door off, I would think you'd spot this person coming at you. If he saw Clark coming, though, he may have thought Clark was coming to ask for help, and not recognized any danger in opening the door before he was sure who this person was.

 

3) I've never carried a weapon on my person in a car, but I would think a pistol in a good retention holster on one's side would be difficult for Smith to draw while seated, especially while grappling with a lunatic, and that it would be all but impossible for Clark to get it out. Is it possible that it was already out or not locked in place for some unrelated reason and, in hindsight, should not have been, or were the retention devices on Smith's holster perhaps inadequate or poorly designed such that the model is not reliable enough for police officers?

 

I am not suggesting that Smith must have broken a rule or made an error. He may have done everything he knew was right, without ever realizing that *this* particular bizarre scenario was something he had to worry about. I'm just hoping that maybe there are a few simple protocols that can come out of this and be taught as best practices in the future so that it doesn't happen to anyone else.

 

 

A lot of good questions that need answering. This reminds me a little bit of the Lee Barta incident. When everything finally came to light it was revealed that had Barta followed protocol his death would have been preventable.

 

In regards to this weeks incident, we're just lucky that more people weren't hurt, or killed.